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Alaska...What's the Latest?
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av8instyle
Above Average Member
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- 427
We'll know by the end of next month.
Rumors widely vary as to amount of any pay cut.
Small classes going through now from out of pool.
Number of new hires will depend on work rules changes.
Things will be pretty clear in about two months I think.
Most agree they've got something up their sleeve at Angle Lake.
Rumors widely vary as to amount of any pay cut.
Small classes going through now from out of pool.
Number of new hires will depend on work rules changes.
Things will be pretty clear in about two months I think.
Most agree they've got something up their sleeve at Angle Lake.
flx757
I gotta have more cowbell
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AK737FO
Well-known member
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- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
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not much
The answer is, not much... I think the last profit sharing check I got was about 100 bucks. It is also rumored that "upper management" (as they love to call themselves) and the board just reduced the 10% number to 5%. If true, this will reduce the future pay out amounts by 50% when we return to solid profitabiltiy in the near future.
I've always said Mr Aryer is going about this all wrong. Don't demand a 23% cut from your pilots, don't outsource fleet service and threaten to outsource the ramp, don't hide money like crazy when you are actually doing pretty well with the improvements that have been made.
A leader would stand up in front of the employees and say - This is how much I make, XXX dollars a month, plus XXX number of stock, plus XXX amount of beni's. I am asking you all to give up XXX amount of money, work rules and beni's. I will give up more. Starting today, my monthly check, stock options and beni's will now be XXX. A leader like that I would follow to the end of the earth (also known as Barrow).
Our senior management acts like their compensation package is clasified, 007 secret spy stuff. They love to say that they need to pay competitive wages to attract and retain top management. Who are you kidding... want to know who will be Alaska's CEO in 10 to 20 years? Look at who is running Horizon now. When it comes to employees we hear, we need to have "market based wages and benifits". English translation = bankrupt wages so we can compete with the lowest level and make massive amounts of money for the share holders. I am more interested in providing for my family and living a good life, not adding a nickle or dime to the stock price. I've got a lot of years left to go, there is a good chance that Mr Ayer will be dead and gone, and I will still be flying jets - hopefully with an Eskimo on the tail.
The answer is, not much... I think the last profit sharing check I got was about 100 bucks. It is also rumored that "upper management" (as they love to call themselves) and the board just reduced the 10% number to 5%. If true, this will reduce the future pay out amounts by 50% when we return to solid profitabiltiy in the near future.
I've always said Mr Aryer is going about this all wrong. Don't demand a 23% cut from your pilots, don't outsource fleet service and threaten to outsource the ramp, don't hide money like crazy when you are actually doing pretty well with the improvements that have been made.
A leader would stand up in front of the employees and say - This is how much I make, XXX dollars a month, plus XXX number of stock, plus XXX amount of beni's. I am asking you all to give up XXX amount of money, work rules and beni's. I will give up more. Starting today, my monthly check, stock options and beni's will now be XXX. A leader like that I would follow to the end of the earth (also known as Barrow).
Our senior management acts like their compensation package is clasified, 007 secret spy stuff. They love to say that they need to pay competitive wages to attract and retain top management. Who are you kidding... want to know who will be Alaska's CEO in 10 to 20 years? Look at who is running Horizon now. When it comes to employees we hear, we need to have "market based wages and benifits". English translation = bankrupt wages so we can compete with the lowest level and make massive amounts of money for the share holders. I am more interested in providing for my family and living a good life, not adding a nickle or dime to the stock price. I've got a lot of years left to go, there is a good chance that Mr Ayer will be dead and gone, and I will still be flying jets - hopefully with an Eskimo on the tail.
ferlo
mohammed is the BOMB!!!!
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2002
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- 539
Buschpilot
Large Member
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- Jan 14, 2002
- Posts
- 114
AK737FO
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 368
May 1
Ferlo,
I agree with you in that the "vision 2010" is not a good deal for anyone except upper level management and share holders. If Mr. Ayer were to have succeeded in getting the "vision" as he wanted it - I think our airline would be a very different place. I think if would have lead to future record profits and massive rapid growth. Not a bad thing in that you and I would probably be captains, but we would be earning what we earn now as F/O's. Also the history of our profession teaches us that massive and rapid growth sometimes leads to destruction if not managed properly. I'm here for the long haul, not a quick bang that may end with a fizzle.
As to "full pay to the last day". Well, we are enjoying our day in the sun. We are currently the highest paid B737 pilots in the country. I doubt that an Alaska pilot has ever enjoyed such a title before in the history of ALPA. We are currently getting "full pay" and the "last day" part will come on May 1, 2005. The arbitrator will whack us pretty good, but I doubt it will be anything more than around 15%. I'm more concerned about retirment and work rules. I'm also concerned that without binding arbitration in our future our new "2 year" contract will stretch into a "4 year" contract. It only makes sense that if the company has us down and on the ropes with an arbitrated contract and the industry is starting to recover (2 years from now) and they can stretch our lower pay and benifits out for another couple of years - why not? Believe me, we will not go to self help - never in a million years. The very few guys that beat their chest, draw a line in the sand and say "see you on the street" are delusional. It just won't happen here - not over negotiations on what is / will be a middle of the pack contract. How many of our Captains have a war chest? Not many. I could cut back and easily make it 6 maybe 9 months without a pay check, most of our guys couldn't make it 6 weeks.
It's all give and take isn't it? Right now we are the top dogs! Full pay and a pretty good contract. Life is grand! Our day in the sun has arrived! Soon the tide will change and we will be back into the middle of the pack somewhere, and it will be the companys turn to feel the sun on their face. It seems to me this is the way it's always been in this profession and the way it will probably always be.
Ferlo,
I agree with you in that the "vision 2010" is not a good deal for anyone except upper level management and share holders. If Mr. Ayer were to have succeeded in getting the "vision" as he wanted it - I think our airline would be a very different place. I think if would have lead to future record profits and massive rapid growth. Not a bad thing in that you and I would probably be captains, but we would be earning what we earn now as F/O's. Also the history of our profession teaches us that massive and rapid growth sometimes leads to destruction if not managed properly. I'm here for the long haul, not a quick bang that may end with a fizzle.
As to "full pay to the last day". Well, we are enjoying our day in the sun. We are currently the highest paid B737 pilots in the country. I doubt that an Alaska pilot has ever enjoyed such a title before in the history of ALPA. We are currently getting "full pay" and the "last day" part will come on May 1, 2005. The arbitrator will whack us pretty good, but I doubt it will be anything more than around 15%. I'm more concerned about retirment and work rules. I'm also concerned that without binding arbitration in our future our new "2 year" contract will stretch into a "4 year" contract. It only makes sense that if the company has us down and on the ropes with an arbitrated contract and the industry is starting to recover (2 years from now) and they can stretch our lower pay and benifits out for another couple of years - why not? Believe me, we will not go to self help - never in a million years. The very few guys that beat their chest, draw a line in the sand and say "see you on the street" are delusional. It just won't happen here - not over negotiations on what is / will be a middle of the pack contract. How many of our Captains have a war chest? Not many. I could cut back and easily make it 6 maybe 9 months without a pay check, most of our guys couldn't make it 6 weeks.
It's all give and take isn't it? Right now we are the top dogs! Full pay and a pretty good contract. Life is grand! Our day in the sun has arrived! Soon the tide will change and we will be back into the middle of the pack somewhere, and it will be the companys turn to feel the sun on their face. It seems to me this is the way it's always been in this profession and the way it will probably always be.
ferlo
mohammed is the BOMB!!!!
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2002
- Posts
- 539
My mantra, "Max pay to the last day" does not mean we need to be the highest paid narrowbody pilots on earth for the rest of eternity, it means, sieze every single dime we can for as long as we can. Just like managment does. I hope somebody would be higher paid than us, it would take off some pressure. Let the arbitraitor do what he will, I would have never voted for any of the proposals thus far anyway. Good Luck
Flip Conroy
havin fun
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
ferlo said:
I just have to ask. Why are you at Alaska if you feel the way you do? You do nothing but complain about how bad it is. You do nothing but accuse management of all sorts of ills. You seem to not support your MEC. You do nothing but spout about how bad things are and have never ONCE indicated what YOU would do to change things. One of those "always part of the problem but never part of the solution" types.
How about moving on. Give the rest of us a chance to sit in the seat you so despise. I'm sure you'll have all sorts of clever reasons why you won't do that out of one side of your mouth, while you continue to complain out of the other side. Very predictible and typical of your type.
So go on, get out of there. Go get a real job, then you can actually have something to complain about.
ferlo
mohammed is the BOMB!!!!
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2002
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- 539
would you vote for a 19% pay cut for five years with no snapback?
Inflation grows 3% a year. That's a 34% paycut. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
The company is profitable. You don't get profit sharing checks for an airline loosing money. I don't care what you think I should do. I know You'll thank guys like me if you ever get here.
BTW, Alaska is actively busting the IAM. That's illegal. I don't know where you people get this idea that Alaska managment is any different than the rest. They aren't.
Also, I'm very proud and supportive of our MEC. The only MEC that hasn't rolled over like whimpering dog. We drew the line as much as we could with having the arbitraition clause. I'm very happy about that. If you want to give away all you've earned, worked and paid for, go right ahead. However, when you want to tell me what to do why don't you keep your F'ing mouth shut.
Inflation grows 3% a year. That's a 34% paycut. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
The company is profitable. You don't get profit sharing checks for an airline loosing money. I don't care what you think I should do. I know You'll thank guys like me if you ever get here.
BTW, Alaska is actively busting the IAM. That's illegal. I don't know where you people get this idea that Alaska managment is any different than the rest. They aren't.
Also, I'm very proud and supportive of our MEC. The only MEC that hasn't rolled over like whimpering dog. We drew the line as much as we could with having the arbitraition clause. I'm very happy about that. If you want to give away all you've earned, worked and paid for, go right ahead. However, when you want to tell me what to do why don't you keep your F'ing mouth shut.
Flip Conroy
havin fun
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
ferlo said:
I guess even companies like Alaska screw up from time to time and let guys like you slip through the cracks. You'd better hope you can hang on to this job you hate so much at a company you dispise. You'd be damed lucky to land another one.
I don't need to waste any more of my time on someone who is all blow and no show. Just another big mouth complainer that never offers even a hint of a solution.
See ya, loser.
Last edited:
av8instyle
Above Average Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
- Posts
- 427
Outside looking in, eh?
Flip Conroy,
I think the title says it all. You're registered July 02 but have only 7 posts. You obviously don't work for Alaska because if you did you would know what we're talking about. All is not rosy in Alaska's World these days. And the responsibility for that lies directly with management. So ask all the questions you like, but don't presume you know what you're talking about when you really don't have a friggin clue. Besides what's going on with Fleet Service, Ramp, Mechanics, etc., this management is asking pilots take a 30% pay cut. Yes, a third. And our airline makes money. I believe sir Furlo is spot on.
Flip Conroy,
I think the title says it all. You're registered July 02 but have only 7 posts. You obviously don't work for Alaska because if you did you would know what we're talking about. All is not rosy in Alaska's World these days. And the responsibility for that lies directly with management. So ask all the questions you like, but don't presume you know what you're talking about when you really don't have a friggin clue. Besides what's going on with Fleet Service, Ramp, Mechanics, etc., this management is asking pilots take a 30% pay cut. Yes, a third. And our airline makes money. I believe sir Furlo is spot on.
321 busdriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2005
- Posts
- 101
You know Flip, you really DON'T HAVE A CLUE! I don't work for Alaska, but I have worked for a major for the past 20 years. This is a forum. You know, a place to voice your opinion. You would have alot more credability if you actually worked for a successful company that's undegoing some sort of concessionary contract. If you don't understand the process, you should probably refrain from posting. Best of luck to all you Alaska guys. Having felt the sting of U, I hope you get something that you can live with.
Flip Conroy said:
Flip Conroy
havin fun
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 116
You are right. I guess since I have only posted 7 times since July '02 that I couldn't possibly have a clue. I have been around since that time, but rarely post. I have posted a few times asking questions for others who wanted information. I will go back to my lurking and maybe ask a few questions from time to time. You guys reminded my why I don't bother with this "forum".
Also, 321 busdriver. You have no idea who I work for, have worked for and under what conditions or contracts. Funny you should tell me that I don't have a clue.
Good day, gentlemen. Enjoy your "forum" where anyone with a computer can solve the world's problems and tell everyone else how wrong they are. What a country.
Also, 321 busdriver. You have no idea who I work for, have worked for and under what conditions or contracts. Funny you should tell me that I don't have a clue.
Good day, gentlemen. Enjoy your "forum" where anyone with a computer can solve the world's problems and tell everyone else how wrong they are. What a country.
321 busdriver
Well-known member
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flx757
I gotta have more cowbell
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 1,356
Just a quick note to all my fellow AS friends here...mach none, AK737FO, singlecoil, av8instyle, Alaska Flyer, and everyone else..including our resident proud, cerified bad apple
...
Good luck (I know it's kind of out of your hands for the time being) and that no matter what position I might hold here, I have always been and will always be a pilot first, and am most definitely on your side and hope that things go well. You can count on me for support, and I will continue to state that publicly at every opportunity.
And, if I may, a bit of opinion. I don't see how they can be asking for huge concessions (well, I can see how they can ask, it's what they do) when the company is operationally profitable.
Take care, all. Stop by and say hello when you're in the building.
...Good luck (I know it's kind of out of your hands for the time being) and that no matter what position I might hold here, I have always been and will always be a pilot first, and am most definitely on your side and hope that things go well. You can count on me for support, and I will continue to state that publicly at every opportunity.
And, if I may, a bit of opinion. I don't see how they can be asking for huge concessions (well, I can see how they can ask, it's what they do) when the company is operationally profitable.
Take care, all. Stop by and say hello when you're in the building.
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