Alaska TA passes

[Fubijaakr]

Swingline, huh? Last time I checked ALPA merger policy handles mergers between 2 ALPA carriers.!

Yeah. I was kidding. You took the bait nicely, though.

 

[igneousy2]

What are the new rates?

Hourly Rates Effective 4/1/09
Years of
Service
Captain
First Officer
0 to 1 $145.87 $45.54
1 to 2 $146.87 $71.75
2 to 3 $148.32 $84.92
3 to 4 $149.78 $93.26
4 to 5 $151.19 $99.67
5 to 6 $152.71 $102.26
6 to 7 $154.55 $104.10
7 to 8 $157.84 $105.97
8 to 9 $161.28 $108.29
9 to 10 $165.92 $111.60
10 to 11 $168.43 $113.08
11 to 12 $172.00 $115.60

 

[blusideup]

Does anyone have any info and perhaps care to show what the contract brought home?

 

[turbodriver]

Does anyone have any info and perhaps care to show what the contract brought home?

It'll bring home more furloughs when the senior geezers fly 90 a month till they're dead for starters......

 

[five-alive]

Hey, I give the 15% credit for trying. They've been dominating the Alaska ALPA webboard for the last two years. Maybe (just maybe) they'll get the message that they really are the MINORITY.

Fortunately, 85% of the pilots are smart enough to realize that a double digit percentage pay raise in this economic climate is a good deal. The overwhelming YES vote certainly qualifies as a landslide.

If I pay you a $1.00 a day, and then cut your pay by 50%, what am I paying you now? That's right, $.50 a day.

Now if I say I will give you a 50% raise, what are you making now?

If you say $1.00, you are wrong!

1.5 X .50 = .75

Thus, you would need a 100% raise to make up for a 50% pay cut!

Management is laughing all the way to the bank!

What a bunch of fools you guys are...

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

If I pay you a $1.00 a day, and then cut your pay by 50%, what am I paying you now? That's right, $.50 a day.

Now if I say I will give you a 50% raise, what are you making now?

If you say $1.00, you are wrong!

1.5 X .50 = .75

Thus, you would need a 100% raise to make up for a 50% pay cut!

Management is laughing all the way to the bank!

What a bunch of fools you guys are...

"Double digit" pay raises, baby!!! C'mon, the economy sucks but we should be greatful that we got a pay raise. When do I get to high five our management buddies?
Management doesn't even have to bend us over anyway, because we snap to the a$$ fu*king position with a smile.
Now, where is that cumbaya fire?

 

[turbodriver]

If I pay you a $1.00 a day, and then cut your pay by 50%, what am I paying you now? That's right, $.50 a day.

Now if I say I will give you a 50% raise, what are you making now?

If you say $1.00, you are wrong!

1.5 X .50 = .75

Thus, you would need a 100% raise to make up for a 50% pay cut!

Management is laughing all the way to the bank!

What a bunch of fools you guys are...

That 85% sure scares easily......

They'll learn the hard way..

 

[turbodriver]

Don't expect them to honor this contract either. With this vote, the company now has the confirmation that it's ok to violate the contract whenever they want. All they have to do is offer up PST passes (wait, we get those anyway....) cause they now know that this pilot group will bend right over and take it with a smile...

 

[mach none]

Don't expect them to honor this contract either. With this vote, the company now has the confirmation that it's ok to violate the contract whenever they want. All they have to do is offer up PST passes (wait, we get those anyway....) cause they now know that this pilot group will bend right over and take it with a smile...

Our own pilots have shown a willingness to violate the contract if it served their own interest. Is that ALPA's fault too?

 

[Singlecoil]

Our own pilots have shown a willingness to violate the contract if it served their own interest. Is that ALPA's fault too?

No, it isn't. Our own pilots were happy to ride the coattails of Delta, United, and Northwest for years. Under an "industry average" system, no one ever gets a raise, and most pilots realized that. But Alaska pilots were happy to not only accept "industry average", but actually only 92% of average. For years. "It's OK, pay me less because I live in Gig Harbor."
So you have a bunch of pilots who have never had to face the possibility of a strike and make the tough decisions asked to stand up and demand a decent contract? Not this group. They did exactly what Kevin Finan said they would: "horse trading" of work rules for meager raises. Those not yet on the property get a retirement plan that is less than United got under bankruptcy. Think about that for a minute.
I was warned not to come here by and old United pilot and now I finally get it. We are going to continue to lag behind inflation and that is just the way it is going to be.
This TA benefits the same people who were happy to live under binding arbitration for years. The same people who knew there was a chance that someday they might get a paycut like they did under Kasher. Now they get to lock in pre-Kasher pay for their pension calculations. For anyone under 50 or so, the option 3 retirement option is a joke. Everyone over 55 will take it.
For the rest of us, the only hope we have to get future raises is that the company is forced to. I used to think that meant a strike, but that will never happen at Alaska. A raise will only happen if no one wants to work here because the pay is so lousy. But even then, they will try to up pay for new hires and FO's, but won't care about captains at that point, which is what I will be by then. Don't like your pay? Quit they will say.

By accepting this TA by 85% we have just told the company that they gave too much. They could have said new hires would get no pension and only 3% in their 401K's and it would have easily passed.
They are pissed that they gave what they did right now and will not forget that in the next round. They know we won't strike and that is all there is to it. "OOooh, you're going to threaten us with a strike vote? Are you sure about that?" A strike vote will have a hard time passing at Alaska even though it is blatently obvious to the average Joe that the vote is largely symbolic and meant to apply leverage.

In 2012 under this TA, our pay will still be below what it was in May of 2001. 85% voted to have their pay lower in 2012 (and 2013 and 2014 at least) than it was in 2001. You have just made it clear to the company that they gave too much. If I was them I would come out with a wage freeze next time and stall until the mediator threatened to release the union. That will waste about 2 years, then you throw a 5-4-3-2-1 % raise over five years at them and dare them to turn it down. By now the reps phones will be ringing off the hook with guys screaming at them to take it because the economy somewhere in the country is bad. Maybe then they can get 50% + 1, which is their goal.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Once again, just like the Age 65 "debate", the issue is dead. 85% of our pilots voted FOR the contract. It was an overwhelming landslide.

Funny that the 15% number of NO votes pretty much coincides with the number of Reserves/Junior Captains who have fallen for the fearmongering posted here and on the Alaska ALPA board.

FURLOUGHS!
DOWNGRADES!
90 HOUR LINES!
EASY VSA!
LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS!

Oh my.

The 85% number represents lineholding Captains and F/Os who evaluated the TA and understood how the new framework would benefit their status and quality of life.

Democracy in action! You gotta love that. Of course, like Republicans, we'll be treated with a lot of whining and gnashing of teeth written in the largest darkest font available from the 15%. And like the anti-Age 65 crowd, it won't change a thing.

Let the finger pointing and name calling begin. That won't change anything either. But, if it makes YOU feel better, go for it. Just understand, 85% of us don't care. I suggest if you don't like the result, run for LEC/MEC Officer or volunteer for the Negotiating Committee.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I was warned not to come here by and old United pilot and now I finally get it....A raise will only happen if no one wants to work here because the pay is so lousy.

That's called supply and demand. Alaska seems to have no problem attracting qualified pilot recruits.

By accepting this TA by 85% we have just told the company that they gave too much. They could have said new hires would get no pension and only 3% in their 401K's and it would have easily passed.

That would qualify as a "condition of employment" just like the B-scale did when I got hired. I knew what the pay was when I signed on. New hires will know that their retirement is a Defined Contribution plan as opposed to a Defined Benefit plan. If that's a deal breaker, they will go somewhere else. Guess what? We will STILL have plenty of candidates.

If I was them I would come out with a wage freeze next time and stall until the mediator threatened to release the union. That will waste about 2 years, then you throw a 5-4-3-2-1 % raise over five years at them and dare them to turn it down. By now the reps phones will be ringing off the hook with guys screaming at them to take it because the economy somewhere in the country is bad. Maybe then they can get 50% + 1, which is their goal.

If "ifs and buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Can I use your crystal ball when you're finished?

Hey, maybe Alaska will buy Air Tran, we'll staple all those rubes to the bottom of our list and YOU can be the #1 Captain in Orlando overnight. That's just as possible as YOUR doomsday scenario.

The bottom line is if this contract is SO intolerable you can always resign and one of our furloughed guys will GLADLY take your place. Good luck in your job search. I won't hold my breath waiting for that resignation letter though.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Fubi, do you need any extra salt or maybe some help twisting the knife?

 

[Fubijaakr]

"Never take counsel of your fears." - Andrew Jackson

 

[Ocity]

"Never take counsel of your fears." - Andrew Jackson

Listen. Pandoras box isn't even open yet. Frankly, you don't know what you have agreed to because this company has a long history of forgetting agreements.

Six years from NOW, we will be earning LESS money, (not even accounting for inflation, but a simple lower number of dollars) than we earned 5 years AGO. For this reason alone, I voted No.

We just voted, by a landslide, to take another huge paycut. I'm not saying there weren't some good things to be had, but I think you need to check your attitude a bit...SWA still makes $30k more a year than you do and they're losing more money.

Personally, I'm happy to move on from the Kasher years. However, I think we could have done better.

 

[Fubijaakr]

What do you use to polish that crystal ball? Minwax? Pledge?

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What do you use to polish that crystal ball? Minwax? Pledge?

I dunno, maybe the same stuff you use for your rose-colored glasses?

 

[av8instyle]

I'm a 15%er

I am one of the few who was willing to take a stand against a mediocre contract after taking it in the shorts by a company making millions. I, like many others, will pay a dear price for this contract, not this year, but over the next couple. And four years from now I hope you can say you were right and I was an idiot, I truly truly hope so, but I am afraid that's not the way it will play out.
We did not get a contract that was fair and equitable to all. We got one that benefited the 55+ ers.
How's Vision 2010 treating you so far? There are even less pilots on the property now than when Bill Ayers first brought his "vision" to us. I am counting the months. 7 more and I will be a CAPTAIN just like Bill said!

 

[Old School 737]

I'm think of making up some stickers that say I'm a 199er. How Bout U.

 

[CGHercster]

I'm think of making up some stickers that say I'm a 199er. How Bout U.

I want one. I think we're going to regret this big time down the road, but I can only hope we don't. Three and a half more contracts like this and I'll be retiring! Thanks guys!