Alaska Poolies?.....take 2

[mach none]

The real sticking point is Kasher did not embody the average of the 5 individual and specific items. He did not even rule on 3 items. Scope, Pension (not a single and specific item), and the B fund. That is the reason we filed a lawsuit.

The company wanted to completely eliminate the pension, not change parts within the pension (they probably would have won that). We should have gotten more in out B fund, and scope is still the wild card. But it looks like the growth will be at Horizon for the next couple of years. Even though their RJ capt make almost as much per hour as ours.

We did an average of pay and the worst case, if you take everyone into account would have been a 17% cut for the captains and 19% for the FOs. No one in their wildest nightmares envisioned Kasher going with a baseball style award.

This should serve as a wakeup to the rest of the industry. McCain from Arizona wants to change the RLA to allow baseball style arbitration. This would than be the norm, with no self help. The race to the bottom would accelerate.

 

[akairman702]

I think it was a strategic mistake by the MEC to ask for 30 days to look at the proposal given the deteriorating environment in the industry and the fact that the negotiating to that point had been contentious to say the least. I know managements' mid-contract offer was full of holes and loose language, but I'm sure they saw our request as a delay tactic to keep the current contract alive as long as possible. There's a lot of room between 30 days and the 20 hours management gave the MEC to look the offer over. If the sides could have met somewhere in the middle we might very well be in a better situation than we are now. I hate to knock the MEC because they are a smart bunch of guys who have busted their tails working on our behalf but I was disappointed to find out that they asked for that much time considering managements' perogative to deny it and press on with an unpredictable arbitration process, which clearly weighed more in their favor than ours. It seems to me, considering the stakes, a shootout at the O.K. corral is the last thing the negotiating team wanted at that point. Now we're thankful for the 20% pay cut we ended up with. I think we missed an opportunity.

As ACA stated, it was not a complete offer at all. Regardless of what the actual offer was, it was very vague and left the door open for interpretation on a lot of the issues, which the company would surely abuse. The union wanted I believe was 30 days to discuss and iron out all the vagueness out of the companies proposal, but the company said NO! That shows how the company was not negotiating in good faith.
Yes the arbitrator did issue the final award, but what upsets me is the fact that the company wanted to (and did) bring our wages down comparable to those at bankrupt carriers. As far as I know, we are nowhere close to bankruptcy.
What upsets me the most are the current discussions with the company about vacation pay. Arbitrator said 3:43 minutes/day. The company has the audacity to say there is a typo in the award and it should read 3.43 minutes/day, a difference of about 20 minutes per day. The arbitrator’s award was clear on this issue, don’t change it to suit your needs.
No respect for management!

 

[regionaltard]

But it looks like the growth will be at Horizon for the next couple of years.

Growth at Horizon?? Sorry, I checked and monkeys are not flying out of my butt.

 

[mach none]

Growth at Horizon?? Sorry, I checked and monkeys are not flying out of my butt.

?????

 

[regionaltard]

?????

Popular culture reference, and not a particularly obscure one at that. If you don't get it, that's OK with me.

 

[Rhino]

new TA

I see there is a new TA that the MEC and management are ironing out.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/business/story/4903637p-4494666c.html

Looks like new hires get the contribution plan only.

 

[mach none]

Popular culture reference, and not a particularly obscure one at that. If you don't get it, that's OK with me.

Cha! Dude I know the reference and I am just curious what you are referring to. If you are talking about the growth at Horizon, you had better look at the companies 2004 annual report. It list the a/c on order. Almost all are at Horizon.

 

[regionaltard]

Cha! Dude I know the reference and I am just curious what you are referring to. If you are talking about the growth at Horizon, you had better look at the companies 2004 annual report. It list the a/c on order. Almost all are at Horizon.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to real growth, not the incremental trickle of airframes already on the books.

 

[mach none]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to real growth, not the incremental trickle of airframes already on the books.

That trickle is more than we have at Alaska. Ours is through the addition of seats in the -400/700s and maybe one -800. The other two are offset by the loss of airframes.

 

[QCappy]

Cha! Dude I know the reference and I am just curious what you are referring to. If you are talking about the growth at Horizon, you had better look at the companies 2004 annual report. It list the a/c on order. Almost all are at Horizon.

That's only because they were ordered years ago and they have to take them. They were originally slated for 6 CRJ's in 2004 and 6 more in 2005. Well, that didn't happen. So now Horizon is getting two per year. Woopie!! If I'm not mistaken Alaska is now taking three 737-800s next year. That wasn't firmed up until recently. I'm sure they are going to order plenty more now that they know their fixed costs (pilots, flight attendants, rampers....) More than likely Horizon will get more Q400's and fly them in California. And if Horizon does get more airplanes than Alaska, so what. If that's what it takes, then so be it. Horizon has the same number of aircraft now that they did 10 years ago. I'm sure the same can't be said about Alaska.

 

[mach none]

Our current deliveries are supposed to be offset by the phase out of the -200. At best a gain of 1 maybe two a/c.

Will we order more, who knows what the puzzle palace has planned.

 

[av8instyle]

Horizon has the same number of aircraft now that they did 10 years ago. I'm sure the same can't be said about Alaska

You guys (Qcappy & Regoionaltard) both sound like you'd rather have the growth at QX. Please don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't it be better for you in the long run if there were more Alaska cockpits to fill? (current displeasure with the Alaska situation aside)

 

[regionaltard]

You guys (Qcappy & Regoionaltard) both sound like you'd rather have the growth at QX. Please don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't it be better for you in the long run if there were more Alaska cockpits to fill? (current displeasure with the Alaska situation aside)

You seem to be suggesting that the two are mutually exclusive. That simply isn't true.

 

[QCappy]

You guys (Qcappy & Regoionaltard) both sound like you'd rather have the growth at QX. Please don't take this the wrong way, but wouldn't it be better for you in the long run if there were more Alaska cockpits to fill? (current displeasure with the Alaska situation aside)

If I sounded that way, that wasn't the intention. I would not rather see growth at one or the other. Especially one growing at the expense of the other. It would be much better if both grew. The reality is that each airline has a different mission, and neither is being used to its full potentional. I agree with you that more growth at Alaska would be better for me. I want to be there as soon as I can. But the reality is that the Air Group needs to get more airplanes for both and continue to "harmonize" the fleet more as necessary to make money. I sure don't want Horizon flying all of the West Coast stuff, and I would love to see Alaska continue moving into new markets. The reality of the industry right now is the fact you have to "right size" the airplanes in each market to be profitable. Unfortunately, it appears that any 90 seaters will go to Horizon. I would prefer they were at Alaska. In the long run a nice integration of both airlines will hopefully produce profit and growth.....**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, I almost sound like management.

It may have been said before, but we shouldn't pit ourselves against eachother(Alaska vs. Horizon pilots), but rather be a unified front against the real buggers, Air Group management. You guys got the hammer and in another year or so we are expecting a hammer to come our way. We are going to fight hard to not lower the bar here....we'll see what happens.