Alaska or AirTran

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Poolie just asked for some suggestions, but then again, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Freedom of speech is a good thing, most of the time! I've never been in a hiring pool, but I'm sure it's not recreational swimming. With that in mind, here's my humble opinion.
Alaksa Airlines is an awesome place to work, especially if you want to live on the west coast. The folks are great to fly with and QOL is a definite improvement from my previous life. I flew with only one knuckelhead thus far, and he wasn't even all that bad. Pay and bennies are good, atleast until May '05. Everything is up in the air right now, but it's my guess that we'll make out okay. As previously stated, the routes are excellent if you like to stay in the same time zone. If you like getting bounced around and going "missed" a few times (some call this challenging/exciting flying), you'll enjoy southeast Alaska. The layovers up there are really cool in the summer time. If you want to cross some time zones, then you always have the "transcon" flying. If you are looking for some fiestas, you've got Mexico. We've got some cool layovers down there.....something like 20-25 hours off on most occasions. More routes are on the way once the contract has been completed.
I don't know much about AirTran, but I have heard many good things about them. Speaking for myself, I would base my decision on: 1) where do you want to live? 2)do you mind commuting to work? (consider sitting reserve for a while) 3) historically speaking, who is a more solid airline? 4) can you make a career there?
Choose wisely, grasshoppa. Good luck!

 

[Falconjet]

Other issues?

Ted, AFman, EO: Those are some excellent points, and I'm sure that they will be appreciated by Pooley1. Some other issues to ponder.

How long has it been since they interviewed and how long will it be until they are actually "hired" and brought on board? That is a question nobody seems to be able to answer, but sure would have an impact on my decision. If I was happy with my current job and knew that AK was my ultimate destination, I would most likely stay put and wait it out.

But........ You never know how long you might be swimming and if Airtran is a step up from current job it might be worth the effort to take the class date offer and see what Airtran is all about. They might find out that they are perfectly happy there and may decide it is the right place for them. If nothing else it is decent paycheck while waiting for AK to call for the class date. That would in no way diminish their desire to have worked for AK if they had been given a class date sooner, or cast any doubts on the selection process at AK.

I am not slamming Airtran by any means or trying to imply that they are not a quality, career destination carrier. All I am saying is that you really don't know a company until you work there, and it is after all a business. It is simply a business decision to take the class there and give them a try and move on if down the road you feel its a better fit at AK.

I was in the pool at SW, but didn't have another job, so when FedEx offered me an interview and then a class date I took it. I can honestly say that I wanted to fly for SW more, but I had no idea how long it would be before I would actually get a class date. I wasn't about to turn down a bird in the hand because I needed a job and I knew FedEx was a great company. Turns out, by the time SW called for a class date (25 months later) I had decided that I was happy at FedEx and decided to stay. Does that mean that the hiring folks at SW made a mistake by accepting me? I'd like to think not, it just didn't work out for me due to the delay and life choices. (Folks who know me may differ and say both places made a mistake, but another issue altogether!)

Incidently, nobody at FedEx asked me during the 2 day interview process if I had applied or interviewed anywhere else. They are confident enough to know that most folks will stay once on the property with a seniority number, and if they really wanted to leave it was probably in the best interests of both parties anyway.

I certainly don't buy the argument that Pooley should give up their position in the pool at either carrier to allow someone else to have it until he/she has absolutely ruled one out for the other. Then it might be the stand up thing to do to remove their name from the other list, but that is between him and the companies involved, not us.

In any case, unless I had a decent job and was absolutely certain that I was willing to wait however long it took to get on with AK, I would at least go to Airtran and see what it was like. As mentioned by others, you can always go to AK when they call and then you will at least know what you are giving up.

Best of luck with your decision Pooley.

FJ

 

[ferlo]

Poolie,


I'm an alaska pilot. I love most things about my job here, other things drive me up a wall. I have a different opinion than some other alaska pilots (or their spouses) here. I understand the difficult position you are in. You are also not alone. According to some, it would seem that HR made a few more "mistakes". I know of two others in the pool that won't be going to alaska when called. Primarily, because they, like you, have been in the pool for over a year and a half with nothing but silence coming from HR. People have lives to live. Period. I don't agree that whose jets you fly, whose name is on your paycheck, is a decision upon which you should build, live, wish and plan your entire life around. This is business.

The company does a decent job throwing up smoke and mirrors, and saying what a huge caring family we are but the truth is...things like ''vision 2010". It doesn't offend me in the slightest that you are considering other options. Remember it's Alaska Airlines that told you you'd be in class by october 2003. If anyone is looking for somebody to blame for your situation, they can direct their eyes towards angle lake. Not at you. Those that seem to be personally insulted by your situation are often refered to as "kool aid drinkers". Perhaps they've had an unusually easy time of being a pro pilot or they are too easily convinced that they have the right stuff. I don't know. For me, This isn't my first major airline, I've had a good real-life education in this profession and I subsequently am not easily impressed by company B.S..

Therefore, I know You have a tough decision, my advice is to take whichever job is going to benefit you, and only you, the most. I'm sure you will do a great job at either airline. Therefore, I don't think your presence at either airline is going to be anything but positive. The fact remains you did get an interview, (a herculean feat in and of itself) you did get through the sim, (the toughest in the industy in my opinion) so I don't think it's SAD you got an interview, and I certainly don't think any mistakes were made by calling you. I think it speaks to the fact that you are EXACTLY the type of person we want working here. If Alaska is going to give you the run around, and expect you to put your life on hold forever, waiting for the almighty invitation, I say screw them and get on with your life.

Alaska has ALREADY LOST two very valuable assets in my friends, if you are the third then the big loser is Alaska Airlines. Don't believe otherwise. Also remember that you are fortunate in that you have an option. I'm sure you are aware of that. Anyway, good luck, and if it were me I'd ignore the other alaska pilots (or their spouses) telling you how to run your life. Your hard work got you where you are. You EARNED IT. Not them. If your situation bursts their bubble so be it. They aren't walking in your shoes.

take care, good luck

Ferlo

 

[satpak77]

it is 1978 and this message board exists - similar discussion

(It is 1978 and you are reading this via your Radio Shack TRS-80)

I am currently an F.O. at Southwest Airlines, a healthy but new airline based in Texas. Things look good here but we are still in the "new stages" of growth. The CEO of Southwest claims "great things" in our future, but you know how that goes.

I am 35 years old right now. I want something that will be around until I turn 60, a "career carrier". This means I will retire in year 2003. For all I know, we will have man on Mars trips by then and Star Wars 5 will be released, and my AMC Gremlin will be in the junkyard.

However, I am in the pool at Pan Am, a major international carrier, with 747's, and my inside contacts tell me I should be in class within 6 to 9 months.

Please tell me what I should do.

New upstart with a few 737's, flying Love to Houston 10 times a day?
Established International Carrier, flying 747s to Europe? Pan Am has been around since the 1960's.

thanks

 

[Super80]

"If he is actually considering flying for AirTran given the fact that he has a job offer at Alaska, he's not committed to Alaska and therefore is not the type of pilot Alaska Airlines is looking for. He should take the AirTran job and let someone who REALLY wants to fly for Alaska have his slot."

Pardon my punk-kid CFI insolence, but the above quoted just seems silly. If he truly not the type that of pilot Alaska was looking for, then he wouldn't have made it into the pool into the first place. I think the question he should be asking is "Is Alaska commited to me?"

I'd say go with Air Tran. The reason? They are willing to pay you to fly... right now. Who knows how long it's going to take Alaska to get back to you. Check out the alternatives.

Besides, if I had to deal with this "Alaska or die" mentality, I think I'd rather be elsewhere anyway.

 

[EternalOptimist]

Don't get me wrong

My husband always wanted to fly for Alaska Airlines. But while he was working for the regionals and waiting for Alaska to call, he considered Southwest. He was so sick of the regional lifestyle and wanted to get back to the Pacific Northwest. Southwest has a great commuting policy and we could have lived on the West Coast and he could have commuted to a SW base. We talked about it - we even considered the retirement issue - the fact that the longer it takes to get on with a major the smaller your retirement will be. We really struggled and if he had decided to throw an application in with Southwest, I would have supported him 100%. But the fact of the matter is that he knew that if he applied with Southwest and got the mandatory 737 type rating, his shot at Alaska would be ruined. Alaska would know he was considering another airline and he would have to answer more questions - like why he wanted to fly for Southwest and how committed was he to Alaska Airlines. Now, Poolie has to make his own decision - I think he knew he'd get the kind of reaction from Alaska pilots and Alaska wannabes that he is getting. Having gone through the interview process and actually gotten a job offer he can't have made it as far as he did without knowing how Alaska feels about the pilots they want working for them.

There are no guarantees in this business. Alaska is not perfect. My husband is pretty sick of the whole management vs. pilot group atmosphere. He was told by a pilot at Alaska before he interviewed that Alaska doesn't have "management" they have "leadership" - lie... Reserve life is no fun and it's getting hard to wait any longer for a better schedule when all you keep hearing is talk about concessions. Things can seem pretty grim at times - even at your "dream" airline.

I'm not trying to tell Poolie how to live his life or what to do. I'm saying that Alaska Airlines does not want to hire pilots (and pay to train them) who are likely to abandon ship down the road for an opportunity at another airline. It's not in the company's best interest to hire people who are not committed. It's the culture at Alaska, those who fly for Alaska work there because they want to, not because it was a random choice. Basically, I'd say that if you aren't committed to flying for Alaska and you think Airtran will offer you a better future, go with Airtran, Alaska's training program is tough and if you aren't committed to making it through, you wont make it through.

 

[UAL'01]

I think some people need to lay of the cool-aid. And I thought the stuff was blue right now. I would think there are many reasons to go with either company. In the end, for me, quality of life would make my decision. Which carrier offers the easier commute, more days off, pay plays into it to some degree. But none of this "my way or the highway attitude". Good luck with your choice; you can't really go wrong, just don't let the Nazi's influence you

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Deleted

 

[ferlo]

Point of interest... I had a 737 type rating when I interviewed at Alaska. I was asked about Southwest. I told them that if Alaska didn't work out, I'd give my full attention to Southwest. They hired me anyway. I'm not sure where you are getting your info.

 

[Singlecoil]

Alaska is interested in pilots who are willing to accept the premium of a west-coast lifestyle in lieu of a little pay. In fact, their compensation formula used to be a straight percentage of what the "majors" were getting, I think is was 88% or so. When United and Delta got their huge raises, some pilots left the company for greener pastures, or greenback pastures as the case may be. This infuriated many who had drained the, "We are different, we are the best pilots in the world," Kool-aid cup.

I agree with ferlo. I'm a little surprised to see the contrary reactions here. However, I have heard of some people getting the business during their board interviews about other companies they were interested in. There definitely is "management" at Alaska, and right now they want our retirement, 23% of our pay, the B-scale brought back, a lower min guarantee, and higher health insurance premiums for openers. As a pilot, I would welcome the poolie because he sounds like he could look at something like that objectively rather than, "Ok, you can have may pay, I'm on board this great ship heading into the future and willing to do my part. You can even keep your bonuses and buy Frontier if you want to (or haven't already)."

 

[EMBATP]

fact: airtran is hiring, alaska is not. take the job. you can always leave.

 

[-9Capt]

I agree with EMBATP.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

What kind of experience is competetive at AirTran and Alaska? Do you need letters of reccomendation from someone who works there?