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Alaska fleet after 2008 & ETOPS

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igneousy2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Posts
1,262
All of the fleet plans I have seen for Alaska go through 2008 which will essentially keep the number of airframes at AS flat. After 2008, however, AS has delivery positons for 737-800's in 2009 and 2010. What is the plan for these airframes. Are they going to be purely for growth or are they going to start replacing some of the older 737-400's?

second question...What is the status of Alaskas ETOPS certification?

Thanks
 
growth at last

The last of the 200's will be gone 3/31/07. The MD-80's seem to be on schedule to be gone by the end of 2008. The 400 combi finally finished its mountain of FAA paper work last week and should see the line by mid-Feb. A fleet transition is not an easy thing to do and there are always hickups along the way, but so far, so good.

Airframe growth has been flat, just replacing old horses with new, slightly bigger horses with the first 50 airframes. Come 2008 to 2010, their are options for 50 more. What else could they be for but growth? They are not spending the money on ETOPS for nothing. They are not transitioning to a single type fleet for nothing. It has taken a while, and it required a mighty "loan" from ALPA to make it happen, but the airline will soon be in a position to grow.

Now, there will be about half a dozen Alaska guys who will jump all over this, make mention of cool aid guzzling and tell you that the sky is indeed falling. Take the above for what it is worth - the opinion of a Alaska FO who enjoys the heck out of his job and believes that better days are right around the corner.
 
Better days better be around the corner or things are going to get ugly fast. I for one am tired of Bill and Co. dipping their greedy hands into my wallet on the 5th and 20th.

Trying to stay optomistic but its getting harder and harder!
 
LAX is growing by 12 Capt lines here shortly. I'm with ak737fo, I think all that has been done is for a reason. I say let the growth happen and bring the $$ to the table as well!!!

Baja.
 
LAX is growing by 12 Capt lines here shortly. I'm with ak737fo, I think all that has been done is for a reason. I say let the growth happen and bring the $$ to the table as well!!!

Baja.

Ak knows better but he is just a "glass half full" kind of guy... but you dont even have a dog in this fight since you are a post-kasher-pilot ...so saying things like that just sound silly
 
Come 2008 to 2010, their are options for 50 more. What else could they be for but growth?

Do you understand what an "option" is? You will in 2011 when you're wondering, "where the F are all our new planes?"
 
Captains at LAX

LAX is growing by 12 Capt lines here shortly. I'm with ak737fo, I think all that has been done is for a reason. I say let the growth happen and bring the $$ to the table as well!!!

Baja.

Regarding the growth at lax: Wish it were true, but you need to read the entire bid, all the way to the end. No change in the number of captains at lax after the bid: 115. Lines will be reduced from 72 in January 2007 to 70 estimated in September 2007. No growth.
 
ARGGGGGGGGGG.......I haven't seen the bid myself. This info came from a senior f/o in LAX. Guess he had it wrong.
 
Looking at the base seniority lists pre-bid and bid effective date, SEA is loosing 3 pilots, ANC is adding 10, and LAX is loosing 4. Total gain of 3 pilots.
Now that is growth.
i am glad the 2010 plan is finally coming together!
 
What prompted this question is that during the conference call B. Ayer stated that AS had 8 "delivery positions" in 2008, 16 in 2010 and, 11 in 2011. I guess the key phrase seems to be "delivery positions". How far removed are "delivery positions" from "firm orders"? Is there a significant financial disincentive to prevent AS from dumping these "delivery positions"

Later
 
Not trying to blow sunshine up your rear or anything but it could be worse. How'd ya like to be at US Airways(west). All the growth goes out east and meanwhile we move backward. If I get lucky I can get on with Alaska and go from $75/hr to $35/hr. Boy I love my job.
 
Has anyone considered a Southwest Alaska merger? Southwest is looking to expand and needs the airframes. Seems like Alaska might be a likely partner.
 
Southwest/Alaska/AirTran
 
I think I just read something about Southwest, Alaska, and AirTran.

(oh wait, I read it because I just typed it)

Go Steelers!
 
but you dont even have a dog in this fight since you are a post-kasher-pilot

Would you just shut up about this already
 
but you dont even have a dog in this fight since you are a post-kasher-pilot

Would you just shut up about this already

No, not really....It does not help to have guys that came after complain about how things are....You knew the payscale and it is not going to change, you knew that there is no growth and that is not going to change, you knew how dysfunctional the airline had become and that is not going to change so follow your own advice.....
 
Tico go get F-ed. Way to keep the pilot group together. I'm post kasher, and I get screwed each month just like you do. I wasn't here for the "big" money, but AK didn't hire for 3 years so I didn't have the chance.

Money isn't everything. If you hate it half as much as your post indicate, drop me your resume and I'll proof it for ya. I'll even update your logbook. They way you sound on here you might have a hard time getting an interview some where else.
 
Tico go get F-ed. Way to keep the pilot group together. I'm post kasher, and I get screwed each month just like you do. I wasn't here for the "big" money, but AK didn't hire for 3 years so I didn't have the chance.

Money isn't everything. If you hate it half as much as your post indicate, drop me your resume and I'll proof it for ya. I'll even update your logbook. They way you sound on here you might have a hard time getting an interview some where else.


How in any kind of logic do you figure you get screwed.........You signed up for it.....You kissed someones asz to get what you are getting paid....You begged to come to work under these rules and these conditions.....When we dont have a contract in two years and it comes down to put up or shut up, the company is counting on you to shut up, thats why they hired you so forgive me for not getting excited that you work here....when you could have gone for a real job and picked this. How dare you shoot off your mouth...
 
How in any kind of logic do you figure you get screwed.........You signed up for it.....You kissed someones asz to get what you are getting paid....You begged to come to work under these rules and these conditions.....When we dont have a contract in two years and it comes down to put up or shut up, the company is counting on you to shut up, thats why they hired you so forgive me for not getting excited that you work here....when you could have gone for a real job and picked this. How dare you shoot off your mouth...


The badge backer I wear every day I'm on the property states... "Stand Firm Strong Together..." So you tell me, how are we supposed to do this when it sounds like you're drawing a line between "pre and post kasher" pilots..? Please explain, because I'd love to hear the "logic" behind splitting the pilot group.
 
Ak knows better but he is just a "glass half full" kind of guy... but you dont even have a dog in this fight since you are a post-kasher-pilot ...so saying things like that just sound silly

and tico, you are just a bitter guy who has nothing better to do than stand around the resource center and moan about how things used to be instead of sucking it up and getting ready to fight for this next contract. . .
 
Alaska Pilots, are Alaska Pilots.(period). I won't assume that Post Kasher hires are mindless lemmings, putting on the monkey suit,and gladly dancing for their meager peanut. However, those of us that were here prior to kasher, have a different perspective. It's not unlike the difference between those that lived in Hiroshima before the bomb and those that moved in later.

The other difference, one that shouldn't be discounted, is the fact that when the "pre" guys were hired, we were sold a totally different line. I would have never even shown up for the interview if I knew the type of people I was going to work for. We all have several options and I bought into the "Spirit" BS. It's like marrying the sweetest girl you've ever met only to find out that once she got the ring, she turned into some kind of vicous demon. The post guys KNEW ALREADY what kind of Bitch the managers here are and still decided to show up. That's okay. Again, it does not necessarily make you a lemming but you have to understand that the circumstances that put all of on the seniority list are vastly different.

Let's all just focus on the hard as* fight we have coming, do the right thing, and for Christ Sake, let's never mention this "pre"..."post" Bullsh*t again. We know who the enemy is and he ain't on this board...unless prater is reading, but that's a different story.
 
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Contracts come and go. Your income can change drastically every couple years. Some of us got hired during a good one and some during a bad one. Management has always been just that, management. They are no different company from company, year to year. They are the opponent, they don't care about you and never have. It doesn't matter when you got hired. Most of us grew up around Alaska. A relative that worked there, best friends that did. They went through good and bad contracts/management. I've been hearing about it all along. Just because someone got hired a couple of years after anyone here doesn't make them any less enlightened. Some guys join a team the year they win the Super bowl and some join during a losing streak. It doesn't mean they didn't know what they were in for and don't have the same expectations. I took a job for $%it money once and the chief pilot asked what all the grumbling was about- you knew the pay when you got hired. We said "and you knew we would expect more, what's your point?"
 
So I am willing to be the bitter ass that brings up the questions that piss off everyone...Because as long as you are mad you are thinking and as long as you are thinking you might turn a deaf ear to the siren song that continually drifts across the street .....At this point our own ALPA has not done nearly enough of that. I dont remember being asked to join a strike preparedness committee on May 1st 2005...Why not? What I am sick of is all the babble around the resource center about how "they "have to give us something back and at least we don't have to work as hard as Southwest does and my favorite "money is not everything". So I will do what I can do to stir up the new guys and make them mad. Hoping ,that when we get the chance for the first time ever, to collectively kick "Angle Lake" in the nutz they will for a moment forget how much better it is here than(insert commuter or squadron of your choice here)and join us..............
 
So I will do what I can do to stir up the new guys and make them mad. ..............

Just a question...do you think insulting people who you may or may not need in a fight is a good thing? Also, what percentage do you think have been furloughed from other cariers and may have a bit of outside perspective that our group may need?

respectfully, for now,
Mookie
 
I won't assume that Post Kasher hires are mindless lemmings, putting on the monkey suit, and gladly dancing for their meager peanut.

You can bet that that's the kind of folks they're trying to hire though......
 
Ferlo-

Question based on ignorance - I was under the assumption Prader was gonna be good for our airline. Our MEC backed him and all that. I'm genuinely curious what I missed that made you already not like him. I guess I haven't read everything about him.
 

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