Alaska and the 4 year degree

[CommanderHoek]

Is it absolutely mandatory to get hired or even apply? Will an associate dgree suffice? Thank you.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Degrees are meeningless to flying.

 

[Superpilot92]

Degrees are meeningless to flying.

Yeah OK!!

WOW uke:

 

[Whale Rider]

Degrees are meeningless to flying.

That may be true in some places, but not Alaska. Don't bother to apply with anything less than a 4 year. The online application tells you right away that you don't qualify, if you mark down that you don't have one.

 

[CaptainMark]

Degrees are meeningless to flying.

you need to go get one...look at your spelling!!!!

 

[CYQQ]

4 year degrees and flying are an American anomaly. If you look at BA, Qantas, CX, Air Canada, Lufthansa, etc I would estimate that less than 10% of their pilots have degrees and it is not a hiring requirement. All have safety records equal to or better than US carriers (no hull loss for Qantas in apx 80 yrs).

How it became an issue in the States, I'm not sure?

 

[Steve]

Degrees are meeningless to flying.

Nice shot of the SUNY Seminole

 

[CaptainMark]

4 year degrees and flying are an American anomaly. If you look at BA, Qantas, CX, Air Canada, Lufthansa, etc I would estimate that less than 10% of their pilots have degrees and it is not a hiring requirement. All have safety records equal to or better than US carriers (no hull loss for Qantas in apx 80 yrs).

How it became an issue in the States, I'm not sure?

you are not sure?...how about competition!...there are thousands of pilots out there looking for jobs and have been for the last 20 years...flight schools have been full(until now)....if there are 2 equal candidates..the one with the degree will usually get the job...sorry there is not as much competition for jobs in europe and most do the ab-intio programs....

 

[Metro752]

You can't smoke at Alaska either.

 

[CYQQ]

....if there are 2 equal candidates..the one with the degree will usually get the job...sorry there is not as much competition for jobs in europe and most do the ab-intio programs....

No need to be sorry, I'm not from Europe.

You're right, it's all supply and demand and nothing to do with whether it is needed for the job.

Of course employers will hire those with degrees over those without if they can get them for the same money. With the surplus of applicants now and in the past, airlines could use the degree as a screening criteria. Pilots supported this because it allowed them to claim a more professional status and demand higher benefits.

Now those high benefits and bargaining power are gone. In the medium term, new applicants will question the cost of getting a 4 yr degree, an ATPL, and the years at a regional to achieve the substantially reduced lifestyle of an airline pilot. When the serious hiring starts again and the applicants are not there you will see the 4 year degree requirement disappear.

IMO, having flown for 26 years, there is nothing intellectual about the job. It is purely a technical skill. In fact, didn’t Alaska hire pilots with 2 yrs college in the last boom? Are those guys flying safely now or are they incompetent?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

This is the only career that doesn't need your degree to be in your "trade." It is irrelevant if you have an aviation degree from UND or a business degree from the university of Miami. For the purpose of being eligible, a degree is simply a box to check. goes to show how much you will need the knowledge acquired in your degree to fly when it isn't even related to your trade. What knowledge have I used from my business degree in my aviation career? Well, one thing really. Not understanding how come the airlines are still in business.

 

[Rhino]

2-yr if...

You can still get hired with a 2-yr at Alaska, as long as your dad is(was) a captain.

I know many pilots with 4-yr degrees in Geography, History or Turf Management. It just doesn't matter what your major was.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

According to an AS captain that I met while jumpseating there are six (6) pilots at AS without 4 year degrees. The captain I spoke to was one of the six. Airlines, like any other employer, can use whatever they want to use to filter applicants. The reason the practice is not so prevalent outside the US is simply because the supply of pilots is smaller.

 

[FN FAL]

Is it absolutely mandatory to get hired or even apply? Will an associate dgree suffice? Thank you.

http://www.gawker.com/news/kanyerslg.jpg

 

[SneakyJake]

Why do you got to bring the guys dad into this? It just sounds bitter.

 

[mach none]

Heaven forbid you would want to improve yourself and get an education. Especially in this business. I would think a alternate career field would be very advisable given all the variables we are going to face in the next few years...foreign ownership, age 65, and the stricter medical standards as a result of 65.

 

[Metro752]

Heaven forbid you would want to improve yourself and get an education. Especially in this business. I would think a alternate career field would be very advisable given all the variables we are going to face in the next few years...foreign ownership, age 65, and the stricter medical standards as a result of 65.

I'll pass on the liberal diarrhea of the mouth at 99.999999999% of major public schools.

 

[(o) (o)]

you need to go get one...look at your spelling!!!!

but you understood what he wanted to say, right? so what's the problem?

 

[mach none]

I'll pass on the liberal diarrhea of the mouth at 99.999999999% of major public schools.

Since virtually all the universities and colleges are worthless and full of liberal diarrhea in your opinion, where would you recommend?

 

[maru657]

Is it absolutely mandatory to get hired or even apply? Will an associate dgree suffice? Thank you.

That degree in advanced basket weaving will prevent all accidents. You might say that all things being equal pick the pilot with the degree, However all things are never really equal. The rash of accidents that plagued Delta in the 80's and American in the 90's we're accomplished by pilots with degrees and as someone pointed out, Delta had a perfect safety record with those old crop duster pilots. As they retired and we're replaced with far less experienced pilots the skill level dropped and so did the safety record. A direct correlation.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

The rash of accidents that plagued Delta in the 80's and American in the 90's we're accomplished by pilots with degrees and as someone pointed out, Delta had a perfect safety record with those old crop duster pilots.

Those accidents were also accomplished by pilots who, first and foremost, had JOBS with their respective airlines...jobs they would NOT have had if not for their degrees. If you feel that NOT having a degree will somehow make you less likely to have an accident while serving as a pilot for a major carrier, by all means drop out of school now! I have a feeling that you'll be proving your own postulate.

On the other hand, if you've already finished your degree and have a job with one of the majors, try to forget everything you know. Everybody, from your AME, to your Chief Pilot, to HR, will be interested in hearing of the efforts you've gone to to make air travel as safe as humanly possible. Again, I have a feeling that by merely doing so, the chances you'll ever have an accident with one of their airplanes will diminish considerably!

I have my own feelings about whether a degree is necessary to perform the duties of a pilot, but they're not important to this discussion. What IS important is the fact that almost every decent flying job out there requires a degree to be considered for the position in the first place. Is it a stupid requirement? Maybe. But what's even stupider is betting your professional future on the likelihood that Alaska or any other major airline will drop their requirement for a degree, or that you'll be competitive for an "A" list job without one.

It's just the way it is...

 

[US Flyer]

I went back to school (as an adult) and finished the degree. Did much of it on the road (on trips with a laptop.)

It seems that in every aviation interview I've been in (or heard about), they are trying to weed you "out" rather than "in".

Its just one less thing to worry about or have a question mark on the resume about.

You'll be happy you finished. If I can do it ANYONE can!

 

[FN FAL]

Since virtually all the universities and colleges are worthless and full of liberal diarrhea in your opinion, where would you recommend?

A guy throwing boxes off the back of delivery truck was telling me what useless liberal crap colleges were. Then he crawled into the back of my plane and stacked them boxes nice and neat.

 

[cptcrunch]

whistlin dan nailed it on the head, just get the degree if you want an airline career. Will it make you a better pilot, no but you can hang the degree above your bar at home.

 

[CYQQ]

What IS important is the fact that almost every decent flying job out there requires a degree to be considered for the position ...

I agree Dan, for now this is a moot point. With rare exception, you need a degree to get a good job. (I finally made it into the pool at UAL without one but only with offsetting experience… the degree would have been much quicker.)

I only point out that the rest of the world is different and at some point it may change in the US.

In Canada, Australia, UK, etc. there has always been an abundance of pilots. In fact they export pilots and make up the largest groups at Cathay, Singapore, Emirates, etc. It’s just that in those countries both the pilots and companies approach the job as a technical occupation rather than an intellectual pursuit. The hiring boards look primarily at flight training and experience.

It will only change in the US if the next generation is no longer willing to make the substantial investment to make the min requirements. Is it worth it for the current EMB 190 pay and conditions? If the job is no longer attracting people companies will re-assess their need for a degree and may even be forced into the ab-initio system.

In the current environment this is a non-issue, but in 5 yrs things could change. Time will tell.

 

[FN FAL]

Statistically speaking, the texture of corrugated and cardboard boxes will be well known to you, if you do not have a college degree.

No guarantees, but generally the packaging companies, paper mills and corrugated box plants, will weed out college degree applicants for entry labor positions during the hiring process.

 

[FN FAL]

The future is bright for AA Degree People:

Bright Future for Associate Degrees

By Laura Morsch, CareerBuilder.com writer

Higher education is often synonymous with more professional opportunities. There's also a strong correlation between more formal schooling and lower unemployment, according to the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). In March 2006, high school graduates had a nationwide unemployment rate of 4.6 percent -- a rate that plummeted to 3.9 percent for associate degree holders and 2.2 percent for those with a bachelor's degree or higher.

Not surprisingly, investing in post-high school education can also have a strong impact on salary. While high school graduates with no college education collect an average weekly salary of $583, according to Current Population Survey data, that figure jumps nearly 15 percent to $670 for associate degree holders.

About 44 percent of all students are enrolled at two-year colleges, in part for their pocketbook-friendly tuition rates, according to the College Board. The organization estimates this year's average public two-year college tuition to be $2,191 -- or roughly equal to the average individual tax refund, according to the IRS.

(By comparison, public four-year schools command annual tuitions of nearly $5,500 and private four-year university tuitions average more than $21,200.)

A four-year education is not always the ticket to a swollen bank account, however. The following jobs -- ranked by the BLS as the highest-paying jobs typically held by those with associate degrees -- pay more than many jobs that require bachelor's degrees.

1. Computer specialist -- $59,480
Depending on the employer, computer specialists perform a variety of functions, ranging from technical support to coordinating network security. Hiring managers prefer graduates with an associate degree in a computer-related field.

2. Nuclear technician -- $59,200
Nuclear technicians monitor radiation and operate nuclear test and research equipment. They may also assist nuclear engineers and nuclear physicists with their research projects. An associate degree program in an applied science or specific technology should provide good training.

3. Dental hygienist -- $58,350
One of the fastest-growing occupations in the nation, dental hygienists provide routine dental services including cleaning teeth, taking X-rays and preventative care. Candidates must graduate from an accredited dental hygiene school and pass a written and clinical exam.

4. Radiation therapist -- $57,700
Radiation therapists administer radiation therapy to patients afflicted with tumors or cancer. Employers generally require an associate degree from a radiation therapy program.

5. Nuclear medicine technologist -- $55,840
Nuclear medicine technologists administer diagnostic tests that involve using radioactive materials to monitor organ functions. An associate degree in nuclear medicine technology is standard, and many employers also require licensure.

6. Fashion designer -- $55,840
Fashion designers study current fashion trends, sketch out new clothing designs, select the colors and fabrics and oversee the production of their items. Designers often hold associate degrees in fashion design or fine arts.

7. Aerospace engineering and operations technician -- $52,500
Aerospace engineering and operations technicians construct, test and maintain aircraft and space vehicles. An associate degree in engineering technology is standard, and certification can be a competitive edge for job seekers.

8. Diagnostic medical sonographer -- $52,490
Diagnostic medical sonographers -- also known as ultrasonographers -- administer diagnostic imagining technology used during pregnancy and to diagnose some diseases. Many community colleges offer associate degrees in diagnostic medical sonography, and some employers prefer candidates registered through the American Registry for Diagnostic Medical Sonography.

9. Registered nurse -- $52,330
Registered nurses treat sick, injured and convalescent patients, and provide education on post-treatment care. RNs must have at least an associate degree in nursing and pass a national licensing examination.

10. Engineering technician -- $49,440
Engineering technicians perform a variety of research- and development-related tasks, including building and setting up equipment, conducting experiments, collecting data and recording results. Employers prefer associate degrees in engineering technology, which are widely available at technical institutes.


Laura Morsch is a writer for CareerBuilder.com. She researches and writes about job search strategy, career management, hiring trends and workplace issues.