Alaska Airline's B737-400 Combi

[AK737FO]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE​

July 14, 2004
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ALASKA AIRLINES TO RETROFIT 737-400 AIRCRAFT TO PROVIDE BETTER PASSENGER AND CARGO SERVICE TO THE STATE OF ALASKA
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SEATTLE—Alaska Airlines today reaffirmed its commitment to serving the cargo and passenger needs of the state of Alaska by inking a $15 million contract to retrofit five of its 737-400 aircraft to carry cargo and passengers.
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"We’ve been looking for a replacement for our 737-200s for some time now," said George Bagley, Alaska’s executive vice president of operations. "Retrofitting our existing, newer 737-400s makes sense from a cost standpoint and will actually increase our freight and passenger capacity in Alaska."
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Four of the carrier’s 737-400s will be converted to a fixed 70 passenger/four pallet configuration. One aircraft will be retrofitted to full cargo configuration. Once completed, the retrofitted aircraft will replace the airline’s retiring 737-200 fleet—long the workhorse of the carrier’s unique passenger and cargo operations to rural communities in Alaska. In addition, the airline is currently weighing several options to replace the capacity of the five 737-400s that will be converted.
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The conversions of the 737-400s will result in an upgrade of service, as the converted aircraft will carry more passengers and cargo. Bagley noted that the 737-400s are half the age of the carrier’s 737-200s, thus less costly to maintain. Additionally the -400s consume about 30 percent less fuel and already are equipped with Alaska’s state-of-the-art RNP flight guidance technology, which allows pilots to precisely guide aircraft during periods of low visibility.
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The retrofitting work, to begin in April 2005 for completion in early 2007, will be coordinated by InterContinental Aircraft Services (ICAS) of Taiwan for a team including Flight Structures Inc., Marysville, Washington, a unit of B/E Aerospace, Inc., and the Boeing Company. Flight Structures will do the engineering work. Boeing will provide post-conversion engineering support.
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Alaska Airlines and sister carrier Horizon Air serve more than 80 cities in Alaska, the Lower 48, Canada and Mexico. For more news and information, visit the Alaska Airlines Newsroom on the Internet at http://newsroom.alaskaair.com.

 

[N8Dogg]

Are they gonna retrofit them with the gravel kit as well? They currently fly the 200s in and out of gravel runways. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Are they gonna put skids on the 737? Now that would be somin.

 

[AK737FO]

End of gravel ops

The only gravel runway we go to now is the Red Dog zinc mine, north of Kotz. Rumor has it, the runway will be paved in the next few years.

Hoovers (fans) don't do gravel. The B737-200, affectionately known as the "Mud Hen", will be the last of the gravel birds for Alaska Airlines.

The anti-fod probe on the front of the JT8D-17A is kind of cool, but the one thing I will not miss is the gravel kit nose gear, known as the "sled" or "ski". The "sled" restricts landing gear extention to 180 knots, so if you find yourself high and fast you can't throw the gear (see previous thread on speed brakes).

I will miss landing a jet on gravel. I've got to admit, there is just something cool about it.

 

[Mooseflyer]

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The retrofitting work, to begin in April 2005 for completion in early 2007, will be coordinated by InterContinental Aircraft Services (ICAS) of Taiwan​

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Jeez, looks like even our aircraft come out of Taiwan now!! LOL... ​

 

[ILStoMinimums]

So are you -200 guys slowly starting to move over to the -4,-7 and -9?

 

[mach none]

There was a bid that was effective 7/1/2004 that opened a -400 base in ANC. It split the -200 and the new -400 base in almost half. A few guys did get displaced to SEA. Now the company will most likely increase the size of the ANC base on the next bid. How much is anyones guess. We did win the Postal contract in SE AK and the DOT reaffirmed our service to Adak. The Postal contract will be shifted over to the ANC base at the end of August or the beginning to September with a -200 coming out of retirement.

The ANC guys probably know more rumors than the rest of us on the outside.

So are you -200 guys slowly starting to move over to the -4,-7 and -9?

 

[mar]

It's the little things...

All I know, as an occasional non-rever, is that the in-state pax will really appreciate the overhead space on the new combis.

Interesting to hear about the permanent seat installation though. I always had to chuckle at the sight of a pallet with chairs fastened to them.

 

[inline]

The only gravel runway we go to now is the Red Dog zinc mine, north of Kotz. Rumor has it, the runway will be paved in the next few years.

Hoovers (fans) don't do gravel. The B737-200, affectionately known as the "Mud Hen", will be the last of the gravel birds for Alaska Airlines.

The anti-fod probe on the front of the JT8D-17A is kind of cool, but the one thing I will not miss is the gravel kit nose gear, known as the "sled" or "ski". The "sled" restricts landing gear extention to 180 knots, so if you find yourself high and fast you can't throw the gear (see previous thread on speed brakes).

I will miss landing a jet on gravel. I've got to admit, there is just something cool about it.

Some operators who flew the 200s with a gravel kit got around the problem of the low landing gear extension speed by extending the mains only via the manual release lanyards, then the nose once you got your speed. And the FAA bought off on it. It wasn't used very often.

 

[flx757]

Some operators who flew the 200s with a gravel kit got around the problem of the low landing gear extension speed by extending the mains only via the manual release lanyards, then the nose once you got your speed. And the FAA bought off on it. It wasn't used very often.

At the two companies which I worked where we flew the gravel equipped -200s, this was a strictly prohibited procedure. Sure, there were guys that used that "techinique" because they got themselves into a bind...but no one "bought off on it". In fact, it was rare to "get away with it", and most wound up paying some sort of price.

 

[ferlo]

Are any other alaska pilots concerned by the fact that they are parking 10 200's and only replacing them with 5? I know they are notorious hanger queens but at about 5+ crews per aircraft multiplied by 5 aircraft, that's a lot of jobs that just vanished. I'm a little concerned.

 

[flx757]

Are any other alaska pilots concerned by the fact that they are parking 10 200's and only replacing them with 5? I know they are notorious hanger queens but at about 5+ crews per aircraft multiplied by 5 aircraft, that's a lot of jobs that just vanished. I'm a little concerned.

They are not exactly "replacing" the 10 -200s with only 5 -400s. They are only retrofitting 5 -400s for a combi configuration. Other flying will be taken up by 4/7/9s without the combi config. No jobs have "vanished" due to this conversion of the fleet. In fact, there will be new hires before the end of the year, and the CEO is standing by his goal of growing the company by 6.5% in 2005 (or so he still recently claimed). I think you are unduly alarmed. Are you an Alaska pilot? If so, maybe you could share more of exactly what has you concerned. I may be missing something, since we are typically only shown the lower right hand corner of the big picture...

While I hate to see the -200s go, I was REALLY sad to see the end of an era at DUT. I can remember when THAT runway required the gravel kits. But things change, and hopefully the company can get things back on a profitable track, and everyone can prosper in the long haul. We all walk a very fine line in this business.

 

[ferlo]

FLX,

Yes I'm an Alaska pilot. I guess I'll hold my final opinion about this until I see what aircraft, or how many I should say are going to be delivered to fill in the the retrofitted aircraft. The bottom line is 5 aircraft are leaving, and thus far and not scheduled to be replaced. Seats are jobs. It does us no good as a pilot group if the slack is drawn up by larger airplanes. 10 seats are 10 seats. I'm not worried about a furlough, or anything drastic like that but I hate to see the fleet shrink even slightly.

 

[mach none]

I don't think we will see a reduction in the fleet totals. To attain the seat costs they want, we need to grow. I suspect we will see some -800's after the contract is settled. Notice the conversion is not slated to begin until april 05 through 2007. Look for an a/c order announcment in May of 05.

I am not supporting "the vision" either. Just my opinion.

 

[av8instyle]

FLX,

Yes I'm an Alaska pilot. I guess I'll hold my final opinion about this until I see what aircraft, or how many I should say are going to be delivered to fill in the the retrofitted aircraft. The bottom line is 5 aircraft are leaving, and thus far and not scheduled to be replaced. Seats are jobs. It does us no good as a pilot group if the slack is drawn up by larger airplanes. 10 seats are 10 seats. I'm not worried about a furlough, or anything drastic like that but I hate to see the fleet shrink even slightly.

We don't have 10 200's on the property anyway.

 

[flx757]

We don't have 10 200's on the property anyway.

av8instyle,

Since I am on the other side, I really didn't know the exact number of -200s, so I was taking ferlo's word for it.

BTW...it was good to meet you the other day. Stop by anytime, and take care.

 

[inline]

At the two companies which I worked where we flew the gravel equipped -200s, this was a strictly prohibited procedure. Sure, there were guys that used that "techinique" because they got themselves into a bind...but no one "bought off on it". In fact, it was rare to "get away with it", and most wound up paying some sort of price.

Hate to break this to you, but it was an accepted PROCEDURE, not some rogue pilot's "TECHNIQUE", on the -200s at MarkAir. It surely wasn't prohibited.

 

[flx757]

Hate to break this to you, but it was an accepted PROCEDURE, not some rogue pilot's "TECHNIQUE", on the -200s at MarkAir. QUOTE]


'Nuff said....

(BTW...I thought that's all there were at MarkAir..."rogue pilots"... )

 

[av8instyle]

FLX,

Will do, BTW thank CT for me for the vehicle useage. I got my little problemo taken care of.

 

[flx757]

av8,

I'll let him know. I'm on vacation this week, then he is gone for the end of this month and the beginning of next doing some airshow stuff, Oshkosh, and on to Windsor, Ontario with the Wildcat...but I think we overlap in there for about a week, so I'll pass the message on. Take care.

 

[AK737FO]

Mud Hen's

We HAD nine 200's. 746AS was put to pasture and turned into a white tail. Alaska won the Southeast postal contract and needed another 200. The postal contract will basically pay for the D check on 746 - so out of the pasture she comes. 743AS was suppose to time out and go to pasture about 3 weeks ago. Since I flew her yesterday, I can verifiy that the old girl is still alive and well. Rumor has it, an extension was obtained to fly 743 until 746 comes back to us in September. Hopefully by mid September we will have 746 on line, and we will fly our own postal contract rather than let Kitty Hawk do it for us. 743 will then go to the desert and we will remain at eight 200's. 2007 is the RIP date - does anybody remember that the MD-80's were ALL suppose to be gone by 2004? I will not be surprised to see 200's on property (maybe in all FR8 config) for many, many more years to come.

I would not call the 200's hanger queens. The airplanes are rode hard and put away wet every day. Yesterday, 743 worked from the first bank in the AM (about 0600) until a 0200 freighter last night without so much as a pen mark in the book. When a 200 breaks, it usually brakes bad - flap problem, hydraulic problem, nuts and bolts stuff. I hear 4/7/9 pilots calling in stuff all the time, most problems sound like computer melt downs on the gee-whiz stuff.

Four of the "new" 400's will be combi. The way I understand it they will have three configuration options. All freight, All pax, or 4 pallet / 70 seat. Quick change time will be longer than the 200's, but our mechanics will get it down to a science. The fifth 400 will be all freight, all the time. So do we loose seats? Looks so on the surface, but that is not considering any growth (800's). I believe that in a year or so they will double the size of the ANC base without reducing SEA.

The big deal on my mind is the 200 write off the company is going to do this quarter. This is our strongest quarter, loads are up, SEA reserve pilots are flying 80+, we are just starting negotiations - and the company wants to take a huge write off, years before the asset is even scheduled to go away. Perfect... Look Mr. Arbitrator, we lost money even in our best quarter, you got to help us get these pilot costs down! It sure would not do to show a profit this quarter, in the midst of negotiations, when they want a 23% pay cut.

Well, it is time to quit typing and start fishin - the reds are in! Fresh salmon at my house tonight!

 

[ILStoMinimums]

AK737FO,

What type of equipment is Kitty Hawk using to serve the southeast? Are they flying the 727's in and out of those places down there? Is all the mail flying originating out of SEA or are they coming up to ANC as well?

 

[mach none]

The big deal on my mind is the 200 write off the company is going to do this quarter. This is our strongest quarter, loads are up, SEA reserve pilots are flying 80+, we are just starting negotiations - and the company wants to take a huge write off, years before the asset is even scheduled to go away. Perfect... Look Mr. Arbitrator, we lost money even in our best quarter, you got to help us get these pilot costs down! It sure would not do to show a profit this quarter, in the midst of negotiations, when they want a 23% pay cut.!

This is the biggest deal we are now facing and you summed it very well. Mr. Ayer is hoping he looks great by the end of 2005, when the new contract(s) is in effect and the company is finally done with all the BS one time write-offs. I will predict record profits in 2005 and everyone in the industry will be toasting this management team for the great job they did in "turning this airline around." It will make the next contract interesting. NO Binding Arbritration.


Small print:
Of course that predictions excludes any terror attacks.

 

[ferlo]

Two things,


1. Airlines will never run out of their "one time charges". There seems be be an endless supply in the old accounting tool box.

2. They obviously want to take the charge so they can say they lost money. Nobody is that stupid, the 10k filing will show everything, which is why the stock price is as high as it is, and why it has been there for so long. It's nothing more than an accounting parlor trick. I can't imagine why airlines think that their employees, especially their pilots are so stupid.

Remember when they tried to convice us that all the post 9-11 money was "free". Hardly, it was all reimbursment. It was our money we earned in the first place. All they did was give it back, without interest I might add. The company never once mentioned that little fact. They even went as far as to say that the small profit sharing we got was from "uncle sam". Do you think the government took tax payer money and handed it over to Alaska Airlines so they could give the employees a small profit sharing check? He*l no. That was a bald faced lie. Like everything else in airline economics, (at least when it comes to the "need" for concessions".