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Alaska 737 Type Rating
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'72Gremlin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2003
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- 179
AK737FO
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 368
easy fellas
Take it easy fellas, you don't have to get hyped up if you read answers to questions that you don't like. The truth is as I and several of my co-workers have stated. If you have gone out an bought yourself a type, you are going to have to explain it.
I am not ignorant, I enjoy the flavor of kool-aid that I drink and my career at Alaska has been far above my wildest expectations. I am proud to work here, and enjoy every day I fly (even the 0500 shows for ADQ and BET).
Every one of us has to make a choice on where we want to work. Some guys go where ever they can, especially during times like now. Most of us have been unemployed at some point, trying to feed the bulldog with only loose change in your pocket. During times like that, you do what you got to do. But there are times when you have the power to make your goals a reality, and work where you want to work. Alaska Airlines has a culture that looks for pilots who want to work here. If you think that a job at SWA is the same as a job at Alaska, then you are the type of pilot that Alaska does not really want. That does not make you a bad pilot, or a bad person, I'm sure you would do a fine job in any cockpit. It doesn't make Alaska any better or worse than SWA, just different. SWA has their own culture and they look for people that fit in there as well.
Why should Alaska take a pilot who doesn't really care where he works, maybe has a general grumpy attitude about him and thinks all flying jobs are the same - especially now when there are so many guys out of work to choose from? Guys who drink the Alaska kool-aid (it is rather tasty), and realize what a great job this is will end up being the happiest employees and the backbone of the company for years to come.
Take it easy fellas, you don't have to get hyped up if you read answers to questions that you don't like. The truth is as I and several of my co-workers have stated. If you have gone out an bought yourself a type, you are going to have to explain it.
I am not ignorant, I enjoy the flavor of kool-aid that I drink and my career at Alaska has been far above my wildest expectations. I am proud to work here, and enjoy every day I fly (even the 0500 shows for ADQ and BET).
Every one of us has to make a choice on where we want to work. Some guys go where ever they can, especially during times like now. Most of us have been unemployed at some point, trying to feed the bulldog with only loose change in your pocket. During times like that, you do what you got to do. But there are times when you have the power to make your goals a reality, and work where you want to work. Alaska Airlines has a culture that looks for pilots who want to work here. If you think that a job at SWA is the same as a job at Alaska, then you are the type of pilot that Alaska does not really want. That does not make you a bad pilot, or a bad person, I'm sure you would do a fine job in any cockpit. It doesn't make Alaska any better or worse than SWA, just different. SWA has their own culture and they look for people that fit in there as well.
Why should Alaska take a pilot who doesn't really care where he works, maybe has a general grumpy attitude about him and thinks all flying jobs are the same - especially now when there are so many guys out of work to choose from? Guys who drink the Alaska kool-aid (it is rather tasty), and realize what a great job this is will end up being the happiest employees and the backbone of the company for years to come.
AK737FO,
Dude, you don't get it. There are probably people who do REALLY, REALLY want to work for Alaska. However, they probably also REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to feed their family. What were they supposed to have done over the last two years while Alaska was not hiring? Do a non-flying job? Would that have made them more competitive for Alaska when they do finally resume hiring? Should they have worked for a commuter or a regional making 20-something dollars per hour while having a family to feed, a mortgage payment, and the various other payments that come with being a grown-up? Should their family have put up with all that for a chance...a chance...at a job with Alaska Airlines?
Answer me this AK737FO, in your world, what should a person have done over the last two years?
Dude, you don't get it. There are probably people who do REALLY, REALLY want to work for Alaska. However, they probably also REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to feed their family. What were they supposed to have done over the last two years while Alaska was not hiring? Do a non-flying job? Would that have made them more competitive for Alaska when they do finally resume hiring? Should they have worked for a commuter or a regional making 20-something dollars per hour while having a family to feed, a mortgage payment, and the various other payments that come with being a grown-up? Should their family have put up with all that for a chance...a chance...at a job with Alaska Airlines?
Answer me this AK737FO, in your world, what should a person have done over the last two years?
mach none
wishin I was on a boat
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2002
- Posts
- 669
Delville said:
Delville:
Get a job and in the mean time hope you get hired by Alaska, if that is what you want. No one is going to fault you for getting a job flying for a commuter, getting a type because it might improve your odds of getting a job or flipping burgers. It shows resourcefulness and resolve. By all means do what you can to put food on your table and keep a roof over your head. I believe we do get it. We have been there and done that.
Don't be pi$$ed because we have not hired for two years. We also have not furloughed. SWA did not hire for about two years either. I don't see you chipping at them.
Alaska is my sixth airline. The whole time I kept an eye towards working here and I did everything I could to improve my odds of working here. I am lucky enough to have been hired. Would I have turned a job down at SWA, probably not, but I did not apply either. I was not interested.
It is a awesome job and the culture is great too. That is not to say we don't have our short comings. SWA has short comings. Every airline has areas that need improving. If you have a bad attitude and are generally happy with the world, you are going to have a difficult time getting hired anywhere.
ClearRight
><>
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 183
I think we're talking apples and oranges. There are pilots coming from all over the aviation industry applying to the majors.
I agree, those coming out of the military, or flying low-paying cargo or regional jobs, they need that next step to provide for their families. And if there is no hiring in the forcast at their dream Alaska job, sure, go for Southwest, Airtran, jetBlue. I might question their willingness to put down $8000 of their families support to get the type for the chance to interview at SWA... but that's another issue all together...
Then there are those of us who are in a good career position. I could retire happily with the airline I'm with. A job at Alaska will be icing on the cake in my career. It's a family choice- my family is all in Alaska and that's where we want to settle. It's not just another major airline job. I considered Southwest, even had half of the money to do the type. We didn't want to live at any of their domiciles and I didn't want to commute, so I passed it by. Plus, I didn't want to answer those questions above if Alaska calls.
The Southwest culture says that if you want to fly for them enough, go buy the type. As I understand it, the Alaska culture says, if you want to be there, it needs to be your first choice....
Alaska is my first choice and until they turn me down, I won't apply anywhere else.
I agree, those coming out of the military, or flying low-paying cargo or regional jobs, they need that next step to provide for their families. And if there is no hiring in the forcast at their dream Alaska job, sure, go for Southwest, Airtran, jetBlue. I might question their willingness to put down $8000 of their families support to get the type for the chance to interview at SWA... but that's another issue all together...
Then there are those of us who are in a good career position. I could retire happily with the airline I'm with. A job at Alaska will be icing on the cake in my career. It's a family choice- my family is all in Alaska and that's where we want to settle. It's not just another major airline job. I considered Southwest, even had half of the money to do the type. We didn't want to live at any of their domiciles and I didn't want to commute, so I passed it by. Plus, I didn't want to answer those questions above if Alaska calls.
The Southwest culture says that if you want to fly for them enough, go buy the type. As I understand it, the Alaska culture says, if you want to be there, it needs to be your first choice....
Alaska is my first choice and until they turn me down, I won't apply anywhere else.
AK737FO
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 368
non-logic
Delvile,
Take a look at my post, I said that a guys has got to do whatever he has got to do to feed the Bulldog. We all have responsibilities, we all have morgages, most all of us have been unemployeed at some point in our careers - but we found a way. You will never be able to convince me that going out and spending $7,000 to try to buy a job at SWA is a logical way to spend money, especially when unemployeed, looking for work, and trying to take care of one's responsibilities. You will do what you need to do for yourself and your family, and I wish you well - just don't get upset at Alaska because you don't like their system, their culture or that the phone didn't ring fast enough for you.
I spent 10 years focused on obtaining this job, flying this airplane in this base. Nothing else mattered. I did all the things I had to do to find a way to turn my dream into reality. Like Mach None, I was not interested in SWA. Different culture, different lifestyle - just didn't appeal to me.
ClearRight has got it figured out when he said,
"The Southwest culture says that if you want to fly for them enough, go buy the type. As I understand it, the Alaska culture says, if you want to be there, it needs to be your first choice...."
I hope you get the call ClearRight and that we will see you on the line. Good Luck.
Delvile,
Take a look at my post, I said that a guys has got to do whatever he has got to do to feed the Bulldog. We all have responsibilities, we all have morgages, most all of us have been unemployeed at some point in our careers - but we found a way. You will never be able to convince me that going out and spending $7,000 to try to buy a job at SWA is a logical way to spend money, especially when unemployeed, looking for work, and trying to take care of one's responsibilities. You will do what you need to do for yourself and your family, and I wish you well - just don't get upset at Alaska because you don't like their system, their culture or that the phone didn't ring fast enough for you.
I spent 10 years focused on obtaining this job, flying this airplane in this base. Nothing else mattered. I did all the things I had to do to find a way to turn my dream into reality. Like Mach None, I was not interested in SWA. Different culture, different lifestyle - just didn't appeal to me.
ClearRight has got it figured out when he said,
"The Southwest culture says that if you want to fly for them enough, go buy the type. As I understand it, the Alaska culture says, if you want to be there, it needs to be your first choice...."
I hope you get the call ClearRight and that we will see you on the line. Good Luck.
Some pilots slip through the cracks to get into Alaska. Pilots who don't really care where they work. Quite a few left prior to 9/11 for jobs with the "good paying companies". I don't think that they are missed. I'm sure that the interviewers are going to be very cued in on who wants to be part of Alaska Airlines for the right reasons. If you take a job with someone just to burn them if Alaska calls, you won't get hired. It has been done to them too many times in the past and they can spot it.
coolyokeluke
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 313
AK737FO said:
Here is the deal AK, As pilots we need to be moving away from statements like this. It is the same logic as paying for right seat time or flying a 70 seat jet for chump-change. It is your approach that Alaska management will use against you and all other airline managers will use against all of us.
You tell them that this job is all you ever wanted and you were willing to do anything to get it. They are getting ready to tell you what you will do to keep it....large paycuts, loss of retirement, loss of work rules etc, etc, etc...same stuff delta mgmnt just pulled on the delta pilots and american mgmnt did to the american pilots. It is total bull, all this talk about how great it is to be an Alaska pilot or a Delta pilot.......
If ALPA was a real union..... you would get a 737 card and then based on your seniority in ALPA, you could move to ANC and fly a 737-200 combi or move to LAS and fly a 737-700 with funny lookin wing tips. The only pay difference between the 2 would be based on COLA and there would be no more race to the bottom like you are just about to join.....
Of course it will never happen as long as you guys look at your jobs as "better" than than someone elses......
Flying a 737 at Alaska is no different and requires no more ability than it does at Delta, American, Southwest, Americawest, Usair or Air Nairobi for that matter.......in the eyes of your company you are just a tool- no more no less- and all that crap about culture and values and spirit is just smoke to blur your vision while they steal you pay and benefits..........
SirFlyALot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Posts
- 47
Double amen to that Dogg!!!
At my company, one of the senior executives came in and briefed us describing the precarious state of the airline industry. He explained that of all the employees in the company, the pilots were the biggest stakeholders because we had the most to lose if the company could not keep costs under control. The reason? Pilot's skills are not portable. Why are they not portable? Because, according to our self-imposed, company-specific seniority structure if a pilot moves from one airline to the next, he or she has to completely start over.
Management at every airline completely understands this concept and has used it to to beat down wages to historically low levels. I'm afraid that we (pilots) are our own worst enemy.
Doctors and pilots are very similar in some respects. Both professions require long apprenticeship periods at relatively low income levels before reaching the light at the end of the tunnel. However, do you see doctors agreeing to accept seniority positions at a single hospital for the duration of their careers with the stipulation that if they move to another hospital at any time for the next 20 to 30 years that they have to start over from the bottom? That would be insane. Doctors would be at the mercy of hospital administrators.
Yet that is precisely the position pilots have put themselves in today. We are essentially at the mercy of management. I have read that the most important asset any negotiator has is the ability to walk away from a deal. Pilots have taken this most critical asset away from ourselves. We have beholden ourselves to management and given them all of the power in the negotiating process. Today, only the most desperate situation will compell a pilot to switch from one company to the next especially after he or she had been there for a few years.
Dogg, your posting is one of the most clear and lucid dissertations I have read on this board in a very long time. Amen to you, brother! We, as pilots, need to very seriously start thinking in your direction. In my view, it is one of the only feasible moves we can make to reverse the race to the bottom.
At my company, one of the senior executives came in and briefed us describing the precarious state of the airline industry. He explained that of all the employees in the company, the pilots were the biggest stakeholders because we had the most to lose if the company could not keep costs under control. The reason? Pilot's skills are not portable. Why are they not portable? Because, according to our self-imposed, company-specific seniority structure if a pilot moves from one airline to the next, he or she has to completely start over.
Management at every airline completely understands this concept and has used it to to beat down wages to historically low levels. I'm afraid that we (pilots) are our own worst enemy.
Doctors and pilots are very similar in some respects. Both professions require long apprenticeship periods at relatively low income levels before reaching the light at the end of the tunnel. However, do you see doctors agreeing to accept seniority positions at a single hospital for the duration of their careers with the stipulation that if they move to another hospital at any time for the next 20 to 30 years that they have to start over from the bottom? That would be insane. Doctors would be at the mercy of hospital administrators.
Yet that is precisely the position pilots have put themselves in today. We are essentially at the mercy of management. I have read that the most important asset any negotiator has is the ability to walk away from a deal. Pilots have taken this most critical asset away from ourselves. We have beholden ourselves to management and given them all of the power in the negotiating process. Today, only the most desperate situation will compell a pilot to switch from one company to the next especially after he or she had been there for a few years.
Dogg, your posting is one of the most clear and lucid dissertations I have read on this board in a very long time. Amen to you, brother! We, as pilots, need to very seriously start thinking in your direction. In my view, it is one of the only feasible moves we can make to reverse the race to the bottom.
FarginDooshbahg
Booger Red Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2004
- Posts
- 202
SirFlyALot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Posts
- 47
Fargindooshbag,
Whatever Dogg's motivations for posting and whatever his position is within the airline industry, the overall effect of the current industry/union seniority system is to place virtually all of the power in the hands of management. With the power in management's hands, pilot wages have been driven to a low point and will continue to erode. On the other hand, a system that provided for "portability" would result in a rise in average pilot wages.
Are you so happy with your current position (whatever that is) that you are willing to give management the ability to pull the plug at any moment?
Until we (pilots) introduce some form of portability into our structure, we will continue to rob ourselves of virtually any real negotiating leverage. The current structure is one that was well-suited to the pre-deregulation airline world. We need to evolve. We, and our families, are the ones that will pay the price for our failure to do so.
Whatever Dogg's motivations for posting and whatever his position is within the airline industry, the overall effect of the current industry/union seniority system is to place virtually all of the power in the hands of management. With the power in management's hands, pilot wages have been driven to a low point and will continue to erode. On the other hand, a system that provided for "portability" would result in a rise in average pilot wages.
Are you so happy with your current position (whatever that is) that you are willing to give management the ability to pull the plug at any moment?
Until we (pilots) introduce some form of portability into our structure, we will continue to rob ourselves of virtually any real negotiating leverage. The current structure is one that was well-suited to the pre-deregulation airline world. We need to evolve. We, and our families, are the ones that will pay the price for our failure to do so.
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