ALA, JBU, SWA pilots:

[Melon]

Can you guys give me an example of trip pairings please? I know there are several types, 2, 3, 4 days etc. I am mainly interested in what a commuter would expect, so probably 4 days.

Thanks!

 

[Melon]

please?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Lots and lots of 3 days. Many lines have 4 day pairings. A few 4 days in ELITT and trip trade. There are also some 1 and 2 day pairings, but not many. There are a few 1 day O+B's and 2 days in open time.

You can get AM or PM. AM's start 0500-0900 and end 1230-1630. PM's start 1230-1630 and end 2030-0030. Line density averages 6.5-8 trips per day. (A trip is equal to about 1.15 hrs). There are some very late/early charters but haven't done any of those.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

From what I hear, SWA is somewhat different than 5 years ago. The average leg length has been steadily increasing and, thus, the line density has been improving. Hours flown per pilot has decreased, but I think that is partly due to the older guys having more vacation and choosing to fly less.

There are rigs, 5 TFPs per day and average 6.5 TFP/per day over a pairing. When they were instituted (or improved) I heard scheduling stepped up to the plate and packed the lines with more flying. Average days off in Feb go from mostly 17/16 to very few lines with 15/14.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

And another thing


With 3 classes in Nov and 2 in Dec the first bid for Feb domiciles put guys who started in the first class in Nov into every domicile except Dallas.

So if you get 4 classes behind you, Chicago, Baltimore, Houston, Phoenix and even Orlando may not be out of reach. I think the kicker was a few senior FO's moving to Chicago to upgrade to Lance Captain sooner.

With 1 or 2 classes behind you, Midway and Baltimore are within reach. Oakland seems to be the perenial starter base, unless your first bid coincides with gates opening up at Midway or Baltimore.

 

[Alcatraz]

SWA Domiciles for Junior FOs

In the February 06 vacancy bid I had two classes below me bidding (I think), which is about 40 something pilots junior to me. I bid for MDW, BWI, MCO, and others in that order, and I somehow ended up with MCO.

I think most of the very junior classes ended up in OAK.

But there's hope... another vacancy bid will be effective March 1...

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Melon, check your PM.

 

[Melon]

Thanx.

 

[tailhookah]

With preferential bid you can pretty much build or rebuild your schedule on most months... I like to work 3-4 day high time trips. With the preferential bid you can request overnights in certain cities or commutable trips etc. Then when your schedule comes out you can reorganize it by swapping trips w/ other more appealing or productive. Or you can drop trips, w/ pay (if you have the vacation/sick time built up) or w/out pay. As long as you stay at 70 hours or above... the minimum. Or if you are not a commuter you can build a bunch of 1 day turns together... whatever you want. Most of the trips are 2-5 days. Most are pretty good for productivity...

Tail

 

[luv2fly]

Hookah,

A bunch of the things you mention as a part of PBS, trading/dropping trips, picking trips with certain layovers, dense pairings. . . etc. are not exclusive to PBS. Here at SWA we can do the same thing without PBS. Which carrier do you fly for? By the tone of your post PBS at your place isn't that bad???

Just curious, if you want to drop a trip without pay and it keeps you above 70 hours, is it guaranteed to drop or does it depend on some type of company net hour count or reserve coverage?

 

[tailhookah]

luv2fly

Hookah,

A bunch of the things you mention as a part of PBS, trading/dropping trips, picking trips with certain layovers, dense pairings. . . etc. are not exclusive to PBS. Here at SWA we can do the same thing without PBS. Which carrier do you fly for? By the tone of your post PBS at your place isn't that bad???

Just curious, if you want to drop a trip without pay and it keeps you above 70 hours, is it guaranteed to drop or does it depend on some type of company net hour count or reserve coverage?

Never said they were exclusive to PBS... just said that w/ PBS you could do that... you SWA guys get edgy too quickly. I fly for B6... not to say that some of us don't get jumpy as well. To get to your question... a drop is not guaranteed. If there is enough reserve numbers available on that date or dates of your requested drop then the system will give it to you. It's not seniority dependent. First come, first served. There isn't a system out there that will let you drop no matter what... if that was the case every airline who did it would not have a single pilot working Christmas... I think PBS is great. I don't see a system that would work any better.

Tail

 

[flyingitalian]

Never said they were exclusive to PBS... just said that w/ PBS you could do that... you SWA guys get edgy too quickly. I fly for B6... not to say that some of us don't get jumpy as well. To get to your question... a drop is not guaranteed. If there is enough reserve numbers available on that date or dates of your requested drop then the system will give it to you. It's not seniority dependent. First come, first served. There isn't a system out there that will let you drop no matter what... if that was the case every airline who did it would not have a single pilot working Christmas... I think PBS is great. I don't see a system that would work any better.

Tail

I dont think he was being "edgy" just curious about pbs because the word has been spreading around here (swa) lately. only he can actually say if he was edgy however.

We cant drop a trip just to drop it reguardless of coverage so that is a nice feature. Vacation pay and overlap is a big sticker here for pbs. its an unknown to us so its nice to hear how it works at other carriers.

You say you could not see a system that would work any better, but have you experienced another airline scheduling system? If so do you like pbs better?
thanks

 

[tailhookah]

Yes... I have at one of the legacies... PBS takes crew schedules out of the system. The system has the rules as to how to drop/pickup etc... as long as your request fits into the logic of the rules it grants you the request. It keeps the human factor out of the equation. When there is an IROP (irregular ops- bad weather days etc.) the company will shut down the ability to drop/trip trade due to probability of pilots being out of position. I really don't think there's a better system. The system can only be as good as the rules programed into the logic to allow you to work with. You can also trip trade on the system as well, but this takes an email to crew schedules due to the fact that it's trading one trip w/ another w/ another pilot. So far the system can't do that except have the bulletin board for posting trades. I don't use that system but some guys use it all the time...

tail

 

[ClearRight]

ALASKA:

A friend on the 73G based in ANC showed me his bid packet last summer (mind you, the SEA and LAX lines will be much different). All were back-to-back 2-day trips that showed around 8-9pm, flew one red-eye to an outstation (LAS, PHX, ORD) then returned the next night. Average 16 days off and 82 hours of pay.

 

[tico]

Can you guys give me an example of trip pairings please? I know there are several types, 2, 3, 4 days etc. I am mainly interested in what a commuter would expect, so probably 4 days.

Thanks!

Sea 737 FO for Feb average 80 hrs credit, 4 on 3 off is the norm which gets you 13 to 14 days off...Lines are not very commuter friendly..ie early start late finish and not very productive...about 5 hrs of block per day.....commuter policy is ok....in sea it is about 4 years to get off reserve as well and you could not commute on reserve...other bases and airplanes may be different