AirWis asking for pilot concessions?

[vc10]

My understanding is that AirWis has recently gotten serious about providing cost savings to United. Originally AirWis had no intention of asking for further pilot wage concessions. Has that changed in the past couple of weeks?

 

[ThisistheDream]

Thats what I have heard from some AWAC pilots. When UAL put thier flying up for bid early indications that they where getting bid out (others bidding lower) so they have gone this route to try and save some flying by agian asking for more concessions so they can be competitive. when is this going to end !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tooslow]

It will end when Messa jumps in and lowballs everyone!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beer&Brauts]

They basically asked the union if they were willing to talk about some concessions. I can't go into details on a public board, but most of what was asked for would not hurt the pilots financially. We are not in negotiations at this time.

UAL and AWAC management continue to negotiate our future flying with UAL. We could be history, we could just be an aircraft lessor/ground handling company, we could fly for someone else, or we could fly 87 EMB-170/190s in UAL colors - who knows what will happen.

 

[Kenny]

Want to know how low Mesa's bid was??

Just heard from a captain, who's fairly high up in the union here that management told them that "The entire AWAC pilot group could work for free and we still wouldn't beat Mesa's bid"

You gotta love this industry!!!

 

[tk855]

Come on Kenny use your head!! Does your post even make sense? Just think about it for one minute and realize that there really isn't any way this is feasible. Now, if you were being sarcastic that is a different story.

 

[vc10]

I agree. "We could all work for free and we still wouldn't make money" or "we could all work for free and we'd still lose this" are things people tell themselves to pretend that they can avoid the bullet. If the pilots worked for free at AirWis it would probably knock something like 15% off of costs (and no one is suggesting that AirWis pilots should work for free). It's very unlikely that Mesa (or any regional) is that much lower in all-in cost than AirWis.

Come on Kenny use your head!! Does your post even make sense? Just think about it for one minute and realize that there really isn't any way this is feasible. Now, if you were being sarcastic that is a different story.

 

[rightrudder]

All I can say is that they are looking at other things to bring their costs down for a competitivle bid. The Union and Management discussed some cost saving items that would not involve pay cuts, but decided to focus on other things now.

It was the owners who said we could work for free and not match Mesa's bid, for what it's worth.

 

[Rottweiller]

The fat lady isn't singing just yet!!

What you also have to consider is that UAL are trying their best not to lose AWAC as a partner. They have been in continual discussions with management over our costs. If they (UAL) were really interested in the lowest bid wouldn't they just say "Sorry your too high, don't let the door hit your @ss as you leave"?? Why then have they given AWAC more time to adjust their last bid?

Any cost saving to UAL has also got to be balanced against what it will cost them to replace AWAC. UAL said it cost them in the region of $100M+ when ACA left the fold. AWAC didn't get a solid contract from UAL last time around like the other carriers, (that's another story). UAL still need to save money, so why not squeze every nickle out of AWAC while they can? Not knowing the exact figures involved but who knows, maybe AWAC's last bid a month or so ago was competative, but UAL being UAL figure they might try and get a few pennies more out of AWAC while they can.

AWAC's management didn't fall out of the tree during the last storm, they are shewd and have other factors in place (sorry public board), that alone will cost UAL BIG $$ if they just release AWAC.

Not to mention what will cost UAL even more is that the general mood from everyone from rampers, PSA to pilots is that IF UAL let us go who the h-ll is going to come to work!? The cost of cancelled flights, no handling at ORD and outstations etc etc will cost UAL more than they can save by a lower bidder for probably 2+ years. UAL know this, their not that dumb!

So it's not over for AWAC by a long chalk. I feel confident that AWAC will be around for many more years to come, and, along with the likes of Skywest even see the low ballers disappear due to poor performance figures, quality of product and the like.

 

[Smoked Toilet]

Best of luck to everyone at AWAC. I dont see your flying going anywhere.

I must add, though, your rampers suck.

 

[Kenny]

I admit the " you could all work for free and we still wouldn't be able to beat Mesa's bid" Nearly had me falling of my chair when I heard it. But the comment was made in all seriousness by our management to senior members of our MEC. I wish I was being sarcarstic but remember that the other airlines that did submit bids only had to bid on adding a few aircraft, we had to bid on all 70. The one comment that was made by our management that resonated the loudest with me is that they said that UAL had been amazingly successful with this bid and recieved some extremely low bids.

To be honest I think we'll get the flying back and up exchanging some of the 50 seaters for 90 seaters in a reduced seating configuration. One of the 146's has been to returned to the lessor and there's talk that he may want another 6 that we currently fly.

AWAC has been one of the leaders in the past when it has come to contracts, pay and conditions at the regional level but I think the writing is on the wall. While we may still be around in 5-10 years I think that contracts like ours will be a thing of the past when we have to compete with companies like Mesa.

Why would UAL or any other Major pay more when they don't have to??

 

[Caveman]

AWAC pilots won't like this, but what did you expect? You guys were one of the first companies to agree to concessions a couple of years ago. You guys HAD an industry leading contract and you bit on the lie that pilot costs were causing the downfall of the industry. Of course they will ask you for concessions because you've already demonstrated a willingness to give them.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:

"when is this going to end !!!!!!!!!!!"




It will end when people are no longer willing to work for said wages. Until that happens ( most likely never ) and airlines can no longer get anybody to do the job, it will continue.

 

[Rottweiller]

Of course they will ask you for concessions because you've already demonstrated a willingness to give them.

Once bitten, twice shy! The MEC has made it all to management that concessions are not on the table. They have however proposed other means to make the use of the pilots more efficient but for the time being management have said they will try and make the cuts in other areas.

 

[8HourPilot]

So for someone that isn't completely in the know, when is the supposed final decision by UAL supposed to come out?

Hey Smoked, give me a ring when you get this.

 

[WhiteCloud]

To be honest I think we'll get the flying back and up exchanging some of the 50 seaters for 90 seaters in a reduced seating configuration. One of the 146's has been to returned to the lessor and there's talk that he may want another 6 that we currently fly.

None of this about the 90 seaters, while true, really sells me. We can talk all we want about 90 seat "rates" but that's not a commitment to actually get the 90 seaters. It's just a rate. It's just hanging out a carrot for us to grab onto so we'll take some cuts.

 

[Mayday911]

I also think that the 90 seater is a carrot hung out in front of us in order to get us to talk. Most of the pilots at AWAC (except the newest hires...last year or so) have been at other airlines already and the thought of flying a bigger airplane doesn't mean a thing unless the good pay comes with it. I spoke with a union officer today and he said that ALPAs position is that they are willing to talk to the company about a combined 50-70 seat pay scale that is higher than the current 50 seat pay scale (lower than the 70 seat capt rate but higher than the current 70 seat F/O rate) in exchange for QOL issues that do not cost the company money but benefits the pilots immensly (sp?). And they also think that a rate for the 90 seater should not be negotiated unless the company actually orders the airplane.

We are hiring pilots at this time...one class a month...but we are an airline that is shrinking in size. All of us F/Os are even farther from upgrade this week than last.

Mayday

 

[DiverDriver]

It's pretty much been said already but I'll throw a post up too.

Yep, the company asked it the union would discuss certain aspects of our contract. The MEC said they would talk about things that were immediately necessary to the bid. In exchange we would need to talk about scheduling issues (too numerous to list all here). The company said that they declined to talk at this time. Doesn't mean they won't ask to talk later but I think they really needed to know where the pilot group stands and then concentrate on making a complete (as detailed as possible) bid for our flying and why we are worth what we get paid.

Our ORD CA Rep made a wonderful post on our private pilot forum about the situation of negotiations or lack there of. I am at ease with the company not wanting to talk at this time. Get the flying first and then we will discuss what we need to do to keep Air Whiskey going.

With that said there's no guarantees and we could still lose the flying. Our re-re-rebid goes in today. There is no deadline for UAL to tell us anything. So, we'll just keep on serving our customers as best we can and do what we can for our performance. Don't give them any excuse to get rid of us.