AirTran vs. Frontier - Not Flame Bait...

[Heavy Set]

Alright - not trying to be flame bait here... It is possible that I could get interviews at both - so, I hope to hear the pros and cons please.

Both Airtran and Frontier appear to be expanding big time with multiple orders for airplanes... So, if you had a choice RIGHT NOW between the two and location was NOT IMPORTANT - you have no problem with living in DEN or ATL or BWI, which would you choose and why? Frontier might do very well in Denver if UAL continues to sink...

Looking for good, logical responses (but expecting otherwise)... So, your choice and why....


Thanks

 

[furloughed]

Looking for good, logical responses (but expecting otherwise)... So, your choice and why....

I would go with AirTran. More growth ( 110 airplanes on order with 70 already in the fleet) and quick upgrade time, but if I lived in Denver it may be a different story. Not commuting is a big plus.

I give this thread about 5 posts until it degenerates into chest pounding and flames because of a perceived dis on someones airline.

f

 

[enigma]

I don't have an answer because I haven't been looking at either airline. But, if I were, I would ask this question: Which of the two has the best employee/managment relations? Even if a company is financially viable, if the relationship is adversarial the job will be unpleasant.

So, how about it Frontier and Airtran pilots, do your bosses treat you right?

Another consideration is in their respective union affiliations. Airtran is not ALPA (I believe) and if memory serves, Frontier is. Until ALPA national gets their act together, I'd take the independent carrier( all else being equal).

regards,
enigma

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Frontier

I'd vote for Frontier!

As far as unions goes, after seeing the numerous screwups of ALPA, and the APA, perhaps Frontier's independant union is the way to go.

1st year pay at Frontier is a salary of 42,000 and then
premium pay for overtime, Captains make six figures.
How does that compare with Blue or AirTran?

All the feedback I get about Frontier is very positive.
I guess management is very approachable and friendly,
and in comparison to the majors, everything is very laid back, which is a BIG plus in my book, the stock is worth more than
AMR, and if U continues to downsize you could see exponential growth there.

Quick upgrade anyone?

From the people I've talked to, the one thing that
Frontier needs is a trip trade system, Apparently schedule changes are difficult. They average around 15 days off I think,
and the trips are built with little or no sit time! Once
again another plus. How does this compare at Blue
or AirTran?

Please feel free to correct any innacuracies, my knowledge is second and third hand.

Thank You!

 

[JJJ]

I believe that Frontier pilots are represented by FAPA (Frontier Airline Pilots Association), an in house union. The F9 pilots that I've talked to seem happy with their job and the future of the airline.

 

[e120pilot]

Here are Frontier's pay rates. In addition to salary, open time can be picked up at time and a half (If anyone has the open time pay rates, please post them-thanks!). If you're lucky enough to have the choice, I'd base it off where you would prefer to live and who calls first.

C. CAPTAIN ANNUAL SALARY

Longevity May 1, 2001 May 1, 2002 May 1, 2003 May 1, 2004
1 $84,341 $86,870 $89,477 $92,160
2 $85,084 $87,636 $90,265 $92,974
3 $88,928 $91,595 $94,343 $97,174
4 $93,926 $96,743 $99,646 $102,635
5 $100,396 $103,407 $106,510 $109,705
6 $102,639 $105,718 $108,890 $112,156
7 $104,609 $107,747 $110,980 $114,309
8 $107,016 $110,226 $113,532 $116,939
9 $108,929 $112,196 $115,562 $119,029
10 $110,854 $114,179 $117,605 $121,133
11 $112,813 $116,196 $119,684 $123,273
12 $114,807 $118,249 $121,801 $125,451

D. FIRST OFFICER ANNUAL SALARY

Longevity May 1, 2001 May 1, 2002 May 1, 2003 May 1, 2004
1 $37,953 $39,092 $40,264 $41,472
2 $46,796 $48,200 $49,646 $51,136
3 $53,357 $54,957 $56,606 $58,305
4 $56,356 $58,046 $59,787 $61,581
5 $60,238 $62,044 $63,906 $65,823
6 $61,583 $63,431 $65,334 $67,294
7 $62,765 $64,648 $66,588 $68,585
8 $64,210 $66,136 $68,119 $70,164
9 $65,357 $67,318 $69,337 $71,418
10 $66,512 $68,507 $70,563 $72,680
11 $67,688 $69,718 $71,811 $73,964
12 $68,884 $70,950 $73,080 $75,271

 

[GREAT LAKES]

GOD VS DITKA

I'll take DITKA

 

[IAHERJ]

Being a relatively new pilot at AirTran, here's my take so far:

First year pay is better than expected. I'll easily make in excess of $42,000. Second year pay can be between $55,000-65,000 depending on what type of flying you want to do and how hard you want to work. Upgrade for me will probably come in year 3 based on aircraft deliveries and retirements. Senior first officers are earning over $85,000 with 15-18 days off if you want the quality of life. Captain pay is pretty nice with our guys topping out at around $170,000 and I don't think we have any pilots maxed out on pay yet as far as longevity goes. All these #'s will increase by 13% if you are flying the 737-800 when/if it arrives on property.

Enough about pay!

It is still a small airline and everyone seems to know everyone else. Contract is good and nearing its end. Hotels are nice and the management team is very approachable. I got called into the assistant chief's office a few weeks ago. I was scared at first but he only wanted to talk to me about a first officer evaluation report which was filled out by a captain I flew a 4 day with. It was a positive evaluation and the assistant chief pilot just wanted to shoot the breeze and as he put it "get to know each other".

Atlanta is a nice city if you are single or married. It's got a little of everything. I commute from Austin Texas offline on Delta or SWA/Airtran through HOU or AA through DFW.

10.5% B-fund match paid monthly to your retirement account. Very conservative management team that has not overgrown the airline and doesn't plan on it.

I'm sure some others from AAI can add some more to this discussion. All I can say is that I'm happy to be here.

IAHERJ

edited for spelling!

 

[Ty Webb]

IAHERJ- very accurate, except I think you are mistaken about the upgrade time. . . . Now that most of the (senior) DC9 guys have moved over, the upgrade time has come down again. Go to Crewbid, master bid, and do a test bid/. Then look at the most junior "awards" and cross-reference the employee numbers with the seniority list . . . you will probably be surprised!

The most junior guy scheduled for an October class was hired in 9/2001. That leaves me at less than 20 pilots until upgrade, and I have only been here 21 months.

 

[crashpad]

Given a choice and being open to either base, I'd say it's a win-win scenario in this day and age. Pay is equatable and both seem to provide pleasurable work environments. I were in that position,
I'd say first come first serve. They both have positive futures.
I don't vacation in Atlanta much, but I am a big fan of skiing and the mountains. One big advantage if applying to Frontier is if you live in the Denver area or are honestly willing to relocate. I know a large number of their pilots reside there and it directly relates to the productivity of their work group. Good luck whichever way you decide.