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AirTran could be delisted and BK this month?????

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roughneck

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
558
I just heard that some "experts" expect AirTran stock to drop below a dollar in the next 30 days causing it to be delisted.

If the stock is delisted, the financial institutions will likely change the arrangement on credit card deposits much like what happenend to Frontier. This would likely trigger BK.

Very sad times in this industry.
 
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any other conclusions to "jump to?"

you should look into oil speculation....hear they jump to a lot of conclusions too.
 
That could free up some gates in ATL...
 
First...it figures that this thread was started from somebody from SWA.

Second...read the 7/12 S&P excerpt below.

"We think AAI is likely to benefit from scaled
back industry capacity in its markets, allowing
for yield gains in excess of the industry average.
We do not believe the company, with $358
million in cash at the end of the first quarter, is
at risk of bankruptcy over the next year. The recent
sale of stock and debt added about $170
million to cash balances. However, high oil
prices are likely to drive large net losses over
the next two years, and we expect investor
sentiment on airline stocks to remain poor."
 
Shares do get delisted after a certain period of time under $1. per share, but unless things have changed, a Company can also do a "reverse split" . . . 3 shares converted to 1, for example, so 3 shares worth 90 cents become converted to 1 share worth $2.70

Can I get a ruling on this? Andy? Lowecur? InstructorDude (NOT!)
 
Just looked at our stock, $1.50. What a wonderful place to be right now. Management threatening to fire 177 pilots, no contract in 3 1/2 years, no foreign airlines to help bail us out, asking for pay cuts of 11% CA 8% FO, downgraded CA will take nearly a 58% paycut.

With this management team running this place I honestly don't think we"ll be around much longer. I used to stress about it, but I really don't care anymore. Looks like overseas flying is where I'll send my resume.

Just flew with 3 FO's in the last 3 days that are on the chopping block. All 3 are disgusted and sickened that they left previous airlines just to be terminated with no recall rights.

Also why hasn't the Union told us anything in several days. The NPA forums have been down for days and yet no one is telling us why.
 
any other conclusions to "jump to?"

you should look into oil speculation....hear they jump to a lot of conclusions too.

"It's a jump to conclusions mat. It has conclusions written on it...that you can...jump to."
 
Hate to break it to the LUVing guys that are salivating over the thought of our demise, but it takes a lot more than a momentary drop below $1/share to delist a stock. Rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated.
 
I just heard that some "experts" expect AirTran stock to drop below a dollar in the next 30 days causing it to be delisted.

If the stock is delisted, the financial institutions will likely change the arrangement on credit card deposits much like what happenend to Frontier. This would likely trigger BK.

I highly doubt this and I hope I am right.... many friends at AirTran. Yep, don't see it this year. Only possibly next year if oil stays high, but most of us will right there with 'em.

How many times have we seen airlines supposedly ready to give up the ghost make miraculous recoveries? How many times on this board have we read "So and so will be out of business by April." Then May, then June, then July. Thankfully, most all of us are still employed.

For example, I talked to a buddy this morning who said he thinks UAL will be gone by Christmas (no, he does not fly for SWA). I say good luck to that. It's not going to happen. I think if it gets that bad, Uncle Sam will step in and we may see a different industry. Like it or not.

Very sad times in this industry.

I agree 100%. If oil stays at $150 or higher, I think it will be very difficult for even SWA next year and that is not good for pilots or the profession.

What is good for pilots is a lot of different airlines making a lot money. I hope we return to those days once again.
 
right now I just wish the SWA guys would keep to themselves. Even though possibly well intended, during these times it is questionably well intended.

Again, whats it to you rough neck if its true?
 
Shares do get delisted after a certain period of time under $1. per share, but unless things have changed, a Company can also do a "reverse split" . . . 3 shares converted to 1, for example, so 3 shares worth 90 cents become converted to 1 share worth $2.70

Can I get a ruling on this? Andy? Lowecur? InstructorDude (NOT!)
Besides what you said, the $1 per share thing is a NASDAQ requirement and AAI is traded on NYSE. Now if the price gets below $0.91 per share, that takes the market cap below $100 million which is an NYSE requirement.
http://www.nyse.com/regulation/listed/1147474807344.html
 
I just heard that some "experts" expect AirTran stock to drop below a dollar in the next 30 days causing it to be delisted.

If the stock is delisted, the financial institutions will likely change the arrangement on credit card deposits much like what happenend to Frontier. This would likely trigger BK.

Very sad times in this industry.

Dude....if you're going to post this cr@p, tell us who these "experts" are. I've heard "experts" on this board say alot of sh!t that turned out to be bogus.
 
Shares do get delisted after a certain period of time under $1. per share, but unless things have changed, a Company can also do a "reverse split" . . . 3 shares converted to 1, for example, so 3 shares worth 90 cents become converted to 1 share worth $2.70

Can I get a ruling on this? Andy? Lowecur? InstructorDude (NOT!)
Ty,

I doubt a reverse split would be in order if mgt has every intention of Chapt 11. I'm sure much of the leak is from discussions with people that hold leases, mortgages, and of course the credit card companies. Bob would have told them what he needs or else 11 is the next step. He wants to head into 11 with lots of cash and doesn't have time to diddle around in negotiations over the next few months. FRNT let their cash get too low and I have doubts they can last the year out. AAI could easily last 24 months with cash on hand and the ability to slash expenses to survive. A good manager knows his companies limitations, and Bob is an excellent manager. Tough times require tough decisions.

If the employees can be patient and accept Bob's mgt decisions, the future airline paradigm will reward those still around.


:pimp:





 
Uhhhh, have you seen all the airline stocks lately? I don't think the worries at AAI aren't at least industry wide with the exception of SWA...

CAL 6.74
NWA 5.50
DAL 4.64
AMR 4.47
UAUA 3.43
JBLU 3.21
LCC 1.91
AAI 1.38
FRNT .49
MESA .30

More importantly, some airlines like LCC and UAUA have had highs of 30+ and 60+ dollars per share only a year ago, so their drops have been significant. NWA and DAL wrote off about 6+ billion in loss of value earlier this year.

If I were a betting man and could figure out who'd survive this downfall, it's a great time to buy!!!
 
Moody's is the reason for the tumble + another analcyst's downgrade. Cash projected around $300M by year-end, but I think the 4Q and all of 2009 will produce lower oil ($100 bbl) if no CAT problems with Hurricanes or attack on Iran. My guess is cash will be closer to $350M by year end.

Since it wasn't any leaks that caused the selling, it's possible Fornaro may wait awhile....although, I wouldn't recommend it. He needs to park some planes and cut another 20-30% from capacity asap. If he can do this without 11, god bless him.

:pimp:​

NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Two downgrades and a negative outlook given for the airline industry sent shares of AirTran Airways' parent company tumbling Monday nearly 19 percent to a new 52-week low.
There's no near-term threat of a bankruptcy filing by the Orlando, Fla.-based discount carrier. But analysts and ratings agencies are concerned about AirTran's deteriorating cash position in light of record high fuel prices.

"AirTran is expected to continue to generate negative cash flow from operations and in the face of scheduled debt maturities and capital spending obligations, the company's modest cash balance could erode over the coming year," Moody's Investors Service said Monday as it downgraded AirTran's debt rating to a lower degree of junk status.

Moody's noted that AirTran is a low-cost carrier and is cutting capacity and taking other measures to try to conserve and generate cash in the face of oil prices that have soared to $145 a barrel, but the ratings agency said that won't be enough to turn the tide.

It said that while AirTran is currently in compliance with the covenants contained in its credit card processing agreements, the company's credit card processing banks have the right to increase the credit card holdback under certain circumstances, which would increase AirTran's cash requirements.
"AirTran has no unused lines of credit available and substantially all of its assets are encumbered," Moody's said.

Also Monday, Credit Suisse analyst Daniel McKenzie downgraded four airlines, including AirTran, and Fitch Ratings issued a negative outlook for the airline industry as a whole. Calyon Securities airline analyst Ray Neidl projects that at current fuel prices AirTran's unrestricted cash will fall to $294 million by the end of this year and $102 million by the end of next year.

Kevin Healy, senior vice president of marketing and planning for AirTran Airways, said he doesn't believe Neidl's projections take into account some of the cash raising and capacity cutting initiatives the airline has and is taking.

"When you look at the industry, oil is the issue," Healy said. "We are taking steps to deal with oil."
He declined to say whether AirTran has thought about filing for bankruptcy protection.

Neidl wrote in a client note that he believes the 10 biggest airlines can withstand current oil prices for the remainder of the year, but suggested "some bankruptcies are a real possibility" if crude remains at that level or keeps rising.

"The industry is moving into 'survival mode' and has entered uncharted territory," he wrote.
AirTran shares fell 32 cents, or 18.8 percent, to close at $1.38 in trading Monday. The stock had previously traded in a 52-week range of $1.40 to $11.17.
 
I just heard that some "experts" expect AirTran stock to drop below a dollar in the next 30 days causing it to be delisted.

If the stock is delisted, the financial institutions will likely change the arrangement on credit card deposits much like what happenend to Frontier. This would likely trigger BK.

Very sad times in this industry.

Oh man, thanks for the laugh!, "boy golly, times are sure sad for everyone except us of course!"
 
Also why hasn't the Union told us anything in several days. The NPA forums have been down for days and yet no one is telling us why.

NPA Board mtgs today, tues&wed. Wednesday is open session, you can go if you want. I'm gonna ask if they can put it on conference so I can "attend" from home.

The forum has been down before, and the outage was put on the Home page that it would be fixed Mon.AM. I suspect because it happened on the weekend it didn't get fixed till monday am(8am by the way)

I think you can be fairly sure the boys at the NPA are pretty busy and are just as anxious to get you some info. Lets hope its good news. Keep the faith! Keep you FOM AOM and Contract handy and follow em like a good prof.pilot should.
 
First...it figures that this thread was started from somebody from SWA.

Second...read the 7/12 S&P excerpt below.

"We think AAI is likely to benefit from scaled
back industry capacity in its markets, allowing
for yield gains in excess of the industry average.
We do not believe the company, with $358
million in cash at the end of the first quarter, is
at risk of bankruptcy over the next year. The recent
sale of stock and debt added about $170
million to cash balances. However, high oil
prices are likely to drive large net losses over
the next two years, and we expect investor
sentiment on airline stocks to remain poor."

Thats co. issued BS...when an outside source says it the maybe...AAI stock has cost me a few buucks.
 
If the employees can be patient and accept Bob's mgt decisions

I'm more than happy to accept his management decisions...so long as they don't affect my paycheck.
 
Uhhhh, have you seen all the airline stocks lately? I don't think the worries at AAI aren't at least industry wide with the exception of SWA...

CAL 6.74
NWA 5.50
DAL 4.64
AMR 4.47
UAUA 3.43
JBLU 3.21
LCC 1.91
AAI 1.38
FRNT .49
MESA .30

More importantly, some airlines like LCC and UAUA have had highs of 30+ and 60+ dollars per share only a year ago, so their drops have been significant. NWA and DAL wrote off about 6+ billion in loss of value earlier this year.

If I were a betting man and could figure out who'd survive this downfall, it's a great time to buy!!!


No one, and I mean no one is immune. I don't care who you work for. Gulf Coast Jet A was $174.65 a barrel today. There will be some that last a lot longer than others but at that price, all are doomed at some point and time.
 

NEW YORK (Associated Press) - It said that while AirTran is currently in compliance with the covenants contained in its credit card processing agreements, the company's credit card processing banks have the right to increase the credit card holdback under certain circumstances, which would increase AirTran's cash requirements.
"AirTran has no unused lines of credit available and substantially all of its assets are encumbered," Moody's said.

That's the straw that could break the camel's back. If the credit card company's raise the holdback requirements AAI has two options, face a potential liquidity crisis, or no longer accept credit card payments for tickets. The latter is suicide, the former is one giant step towards Chapter 11.
 
NEW YORK (Associated Press) - It said that while AirTran is currently in compliance with the covenants contained in its credit card processing agreements, the company's credit card processing banks have the right to increase the credit card holdback under certain circumstances, which would increase AirTran's cash requirements.
"AirTran has no unused lines of credit available and substantially all of its assets are encumbered," Moody's said.

That's the straw that could break the camel's back. If the credit card company's raise the holdback requirements AAI has two options, face a potential liquidity crisis, or no longer accept credit card payments for tickets. The latter is suicide, the former is one giant step towards Chapter 11.

I think we took that step some time ago!
 
Unless oil falls below $120/bbl, I think bankruptcy is inevitable, not only for us, but for virtually every (non-SWA) airline in the country. With these oil prices, I predict Chapter 11 for us early next year.
 
Well, I know of an airline that will be hiring 737NG rated pilots in the near future:


(07-14) 07:09 PDT FARNBOROUGH, England (AP) --
The world's largest air show opened Monday with several new orders for Boeing Co. and aerospace executives upbeat about the future of the industry despite high fuel prices and the credit crisis.
The Farnborough International Airshow on the outskirts of London is traditionally — along with its sister show in Le Bourget in France on alternate years — the scene of a flurry of high profile orders for U.S-based Boeing Co. and its European rival Airbus.

In an early, anticipated announcement, the recently launched low-cost airline FlyDubai announced an order for 50 next-generation 737-800s, worth around $3.74 billion in total at current list prices. FlyDubai has substitution rights to convert its 737-800 orders to 737-900ERs in the future.

Meanwhile, Etihad Airways said it placed an order for 45 Boeing aircraft worth $9 billion at list prices, comprising 35 Boeing 787 aircraft and 10 Boeing 777-300ER. Etihad, the national airline of the United Arab Emirates, is also placing options for another 25 Boeing 787s and 10 Boeing 777s. Aircraft deliveries will begin 2011 and are set to be completed by 2020.

In a smaller deal, Saudi Arabian Airlines signed a contract with Airbus for eight of the European plane maker's A330-300 wide body aircraft. No price was immediately given on the contract. Other possible buyers include fellow Middle Eastern carrier Qatar Airways, All Nippon Airways Co., British Airways and Los Angeles-based International Lease Finance Corp., the world's biggest aircraft lessor.

But deals at this year's event, to be attended by more than 300,000 people, are expected to be thin compared with the Paris show last year, where 506 orders were taken between Airbus and Boeing. Credit Suisse said it expects around 200-300 orders to be announced at Farnborough.

Potential cancellations and delays have so far generated as much talk around the air show as possible orders to purchase. Plane makers have been quick to strike a reassuring stance, suggesting the difficult economic outlook could in fact prompt more efficiency in the industry and with the introduction of cleaner planes. "Is it over? No, I don't think so," said Scott Carson, president and CEO of Boeing's Seattle-based commercial airplanes unit. "I think the opportunities that are presented by the crisis we find ourselves in will drive manufacturers to produce products that allow our customers to be more efficient and be profitable," he added in a briefing at the opening of the weeklong show.

Carson said that Boeing had not received any cancellations. "We have experienced a handful of delays from customers, but each of the delays has been more than offset by increased demand from customers for one product earlier to help them deal with the high fuel price," he said.
Escalating energy costs have eaten into airline profits, and 25 carriers have ceased operations in the past six months. The International Air Transport Association is forecasting industrywide losses of $2.3 billion this year.
 
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right now I just wish the SWA guys would keep to themselves. Even though possibly well intended, during these times it is questionably well intended.

Why should we keep to ourselves. I don't think any swa pilot would wish harm on another crewmember. Having said that if SWA was the airline that was introuble I don't think anyone on this board would keep to themselves.
 

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