Airtran and hiring furloughs

[tbkane]

I appolgise in advance if this has been covered, but what is Airtran's policy regrading furloughs? Anyone who is there can they help. I am furloughed at Delta, and thinking about throwing in the towel to try and find a flying job I can work at instead of hoping that someday I may return, when I am old and grey.

 

[festus]

When I checked with them they will hire a fuloughed guy but ask for a resignation, this was a few months ago.

 

[jjleesa]

Delta $ Airtran Furlough

tbkane,
I was recently hired at Airtran and heard that prior to 911, Delta was purposely targeting Airtran Captains for hire at Delta. They would hire as many Captains away from Airtran as possible and not hire any Airtran FO's. As a result, Airtran will not hire any former Delta pilots. Of course, I do not know if this is true or not. Does anyone know of any former Delta pilots working at Airtran?
I can confirm that you will have to resign your employment with your former company (that is done on your first day of ground school).
Good luck. BTW what is the latest estimate for how long it will take to be called back at Delta?

 

[NYRANGERS]

Do you have to resign from all the companies you have ever worked for, or just your former?

I can see how if Delta hired only airtran captains, it might hurt airtran. But how would not hiring Delta furloughs hurt Delta? I am sure Delta would love to see furloughees resign their number. We accure longevity for pay and retirement.

Take care,

NYR (never met an airtran captain at Delta, however I know many that we F/O's)

 

[tbkane]

You tell me how long and we will both know. Not to be a wise guy, but there are 1,260 guys as of May 1 on furlough, so at 50 a month (that is being very aggressive, becuase it will probably start at about 20) that would be 25 months.


Or a simple answer is a very long time.

 

[FL717]

I appolgise in advance if this has been covered, but what is Airtran's policy regrading furloughs? Anyone who is there can they help. I am furloughed at Delta, and thinking about throwing in the towel to try and find a flying job I can work at instead of hoping that someday I may return, when I am old and grey.

I know for a fact that we are currently hiring furloughees. There are people here from TWA/AA, UsAir, and United. I do not have first hand knowledge of any Delta people, but my opinion is why not? Delta hires only the best in my opinion, so lets get them onboard. If I hear about any Delta pilots getting hired, I will let you know.

As far as resigning seniority, hopefully your CBA with Delta addresses that issue. I know (have been told) that AA will still honor your recall regardless of if you resign or not. I feel that the days of resigning numbers should be over, and companies should offer a job that makes leaving not an option due to the individuals contentment with their job. Just my opinion. AirTran HAS changed, so why do we need to handcuff people here? We don't need to anymore in my opinion.

 

[Ty Webb]

FL717:

I usually agree with you, but on this issue, I have a different opinion.

I am not convinced that Delta, "hires the best" but I am convinced that they often hire those who are convinced that THEY and DELTA are the best . . . such a person is a lot less likely to be happy in the long run at AirTran, and since we have literally thousands of very qualified applicants who would be great employees here AND who may be more likely to be happy with the program here, I would much rather invest our $25K worth of training costs in guys who are not likely to leave whenever their number comes up . . . or spends their days here waiting for that day!

I am not against hiring Delta furloughees (at all) but I would take it on a case by case basis . . . that person would have to have a compelling reason to come here and I would have to believe that this person would be as likely to stay here as anyone else.

To me, it is a real shame that I can;t get interviews for any of the very experienced 135 Jet Captains that I have known and worked with for years, simply because they have no 121 time . . guys who I know would be great here and would likely retire from here. To pass over one of them (or all of them) to hire someone who is convinced that they are somehow "settling for less on a temporary basis", well, that is something that I am deadset against.

Anyway, best of luck to all, and to any Delta guys who see clearly that we are one of the best National jet operators, and that we really do have a pretty decent program going on over here on Concourse C, well, by all means, welcome aboard . . . but please don;t come over here talking up "Mama Delta" that put you on the street!

 

[FL717]

To me, it is a real shame that I can;t get interviews for any of the very experienced 135 Jet Captains that I have known and worked with for years, simply because they have no 121 time . . guys who I know would be great here and would likely retire from here.

Let me know if you have any luck getting someone an interview. I have been trying for over a year with no luck. Same for most of us it sounds like.

 

[Networ-King]

Ty Webb,

As a furloughed Delta pilot, I think your that you post is both childish and rediculous. I in no way think Im the best or have that attitude that Delta is the best. Just because you've seen a couple of cocky pilots in Delta uniform does not mean the WE think that WE'RE great and that DELTA is the best. Your remarks are absurd and I think you owe an apology. If I went off of a couple of cocky guys in uniform then Airtran and Southwest would also fall into the "they think their the best" catagory. Thank you for your informative post on the other information regarding the resignation letter.

 

[duckman]

"Longer will be Longer"?

You tell me how long and we will both know. Not to be a wise guy, but there are 1,260 guys as of May 1 on furlough, so at 50 a month (that is being very aggressive, becuase it will probably start at about 20) that would be 25 months.


Or a simple answer is a very long time.

At this rate...a very long time is even longer TBKane! Who ever said "you can make it harder, but ya can't make it longer", anyway???


Delta's Loss Widens, Sets New Furloughs
April 17, 2003 08:43:00 AM ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines (DAL) reported a wider first-quarter net loss on Thursday and announced new pilot furloughs, as the airline industry grapples with a crippling downturn.

Atlanta-based Delta, the No. 3 U.S. air carrier, reported a net loss of $466 million, or $3.81 a share, compared with a loss of $397 million, or $3.25 per share, a year earlier. Before items, the loss was $426 million, or $3.49 per share.

Wall Street analysts expected Delta to report a loss of $3.51 per share, with estimates ranging from a loss of $3.16 to $3.95 per share, according to Thomson First Call.

Northwest Airlines (NWAC) and Continental Airlines (CAL) reported $617 million in combined losses this week, as the tepid economy, the war in Iraq, and the spread of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) in Asia sacked results.

But industry watchers say Delta, whose first-quarter revenue rose slightly to $3.2 billion from $3.1 billion, is better-positioned than most of its rivals to survive the industry's downward spiral.

Delta said lower travel demand caused by the war in Iraq will require it to furlough 200 pilots during April and May, in addition to an 18 percent cut in its total work force that began after Sept. 11, 2001.

Pilots are the only major unionized group at Delta.

Delta also said on Thursday that it expects its new marketing agreement with Northwest and Continental to eventually yield an extra $150 million to $200 million per year in revenue.

Delta said it ended the quarter with $2.5 billion in cash and short-term liquidity, with unrestricted cash accounting for $1.9 billion of the total.

The airline said it has arranged for $900 million in incremental financing this month to replace facilities that will expire later this year.

© 2003 Reuters

 

[Bill Mostellar]

To me, it is a real shame that I can;t get interviews for any of the very experienced 135 Jet Captains that I have known and worked with for years, simply because they have no 121 time . . guys who I know would be great here and would likely retire from here.

I agree with you.

When Delta was hiring, they hired many pilots who only had 135 experience. They were looking for those who were "convinced THEY and DELTA are the best" just as you expect AirTran to hire "guys who see clearly that we are one of the best National jet operators." I wouldn't expect any less from either HR department.

I wish you success!

 

[trainerjet]

I have heard Jet Blue doesn't make a furloughed pilot resign. They believe that once you work there that you won't want to leave. This is a sign of an excellent company.

No, but they make you sign a two-year commitment letter. I guess they think it will take you that long to figure out that they are an "excellent company".

I really have no dog in this fight, but I do find the commentary interesting. It brings one question to mind, and anyone who feels like it can answer. Did Delta make the AirTran guys that came over resign their seniority?

That's what I thought. But, does that mean that Delta is not an "excellent company"? Kinda makes this whole discussion moot, doesn't it?

CAUTION -- Thread on the verge of hijack!!

 

[Blue Dude]

No, but they [JetBlue] make you sign a two-year commitment letter. I guess they think it will take you that long to figure out that they are an "excellent company".

That's not quite true. You sign a noncompete agreement that prohibits you from going back to your former company for two years. If you don't like JetBlue, you can go anywhere else you like at any time. This is a compromise to protect JetBlue's upfront investment in you, not to lock you into a job you hate. They just don't want to be used to pay the bills for a few months before recall to your "real" job. It's also a strong disincentive to interview in the first place if you have no intention of staying for at least a couple of years. Nowadays, it's a no-brainer to sign though, since not many pilots expect to be recalled anywhere within two years.

 

[FL717]

I still stand by my original post. I completely agree with Ty Webb regarding the cost to AirTran (FL) for people to come here that don't really want too. He and I and 99% of all FL pilots are trying hard to make this place work. But... I also feel times have changed, and that if a company is worth is weight, then people will stay. Also in todays airline industry, furloughs aren't going away anytime soon. As far as my Delta pilots "only the best' statement, I stand by my previous post based on my experience. ALL the Delta pilots I have met and dealt with were top notch, and I respected every one of them, and would welcome those pilots on board here at FL if they were furloughed, and wanted to contribute to our success. However, I cannot and will not argue with my fellow employee Ty Webb and his assessment, because he relates and passes along his opinion based on his experience, which may be different from mine, and I respect that.

As far as the jetBlue "non compete" letter. It still is a pair of "handcuffs" in my opinion. Maybe a looser set, but still limits your options if the company turns out to be a lemon to work for.

BTW - "Non Compete" clauses were originally designed years ago for top corporate executives and technology people to keep form taking themselves and their work to the competition, because after all there is occupations out there that involve alot more skill, knowledge, and expertise than flying airplanes.

I know, that can't possibly be true....

 

[Falconjet]

Jet Blue commitment

The JetBlue commitment must not be too restirctive because I have a very good friend who started at JetBlue, finished IOE and even did a couple of trip last summer, but left shortly after to fly for FedEx.

 

[Blue Dude]

As far as the jetBlue "non compete" letter. It still is a pair of "handcuffs" in my opinion. Maybe a looser set, but still limits your options if the company turns out to be a lemon to work for.

BTW - "Non Compete" clauses were originally designed years ago for top corporate executives and technology people to keep form taking themselves and their work to the competition, because after all there is occupations out there that involve alot more skill, knowledge, and expertise than flying airplanes.

I know, that can't possibly be true....

The non-compete contract was only necessary because neither the pilots nor the airlines would honor a traditional resignation letter. Many airlines require pilots to "resign seniority" but there are problems with people keeping their word. If more pilots actually meant what they said, then such a contract wouldn't be necessary.

If two years have gone by, then you can accept recall at any time with no repurcussions at all, without even the fiction of your company "accepting" your resignation letter in the round file. And you can go to any other airline at any time. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[FL717]

That does clear up my perception of the non compete letter. Thanks Blue Dude.. and stop staring at me!

 

[DAL737FO]

From Trainer Jet:

I really have no dog in this fight, but I do find the commentary interesting. It brings one question to mind, and anyone who feels like it can answer. Did Delta make the AirTran guys that came over resign their seniority?


Actually TrainerJet no one was given anything to resign their seniority when they were hired at Delta. Now keep in mind that there weren't a load of furloughee's on the street like there are now. I guess technically I would still have my seniority number at EJA except for that little letter giving them two weeks notice that I was heading out the door.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey, FL717:

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

After thinking about it, though, I see your point-

If we didn't have people leaving prior to the new contract, we wouldn't have gotten the contract we did.

Since it is not likely that the new hires will be leaving before we re-capture their training costs, I guess that takes care of my concern regarding the training costs.

I still think we would do better to hire people based on their desire to work at AirTran, instead of those who are only biding their time until their primary job calls them back.

As for my earlier commnts. . . didn't mean to tar everyone with the same brush, but guys like FlyDeltasJets and some of the others make it very clear that they think that somehow we AirTran pilots are "hurting the profession" and are "Stealing their customers" and blah, blah, blah, blah and I don't want someone like that poisoning the atmosphere here.

If you can show up with a good attitude, and appreciate the fact that we took you in, welcomed you aboard, and spent $25K training you when your own company won't even let you non-rev on them, then, hey, by all means, "Welcome Aboard".

If not, don't let the screen door hit you.