Airtran and Delta

[General Lee]

Dave,

First of all, you need to calm down. It is true that we have the oldest average age of flight attendants, and that does put us at an economic disadvantage compared to the new LCCs. You cannot deny that. But, I never said this was all their fault, just like I don't think this whole mess is our fault (the pilots') either---but we have to all be a part of the answer. I absolutely believe we pilots need a pay cut, and I am sure our cut will be the lion's share of any total cuts---but everyone needs to be a part of the eventual solution. Pitting employee groups against each other is wrong---and that is normal procedure with this company---if you hadn't noticed. Also, quit slamming Heavy Set and On your Six---I don't think they even fly for Delta--and they are allowed an opinion---one that I think is pretty close--and I see it everyday. I also think the Song flight attendants (or talent) are a lot more fun to fly with and easy going---and I don't have to take them to the Ramada to know that.....(my wife would kill me)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave,



Pitting employee groups against each other is wrong---

That is exactly what you are trying to do when you refer to them as “stews” and complain that their age and seniority reduces DL’s ability to compete with the LCCs. When FAs refer to pilots as “bus drivers” it sure strikes a raw nerve. Your intent to create antagonism is clearly evident.

Also, quit slamming Heavy Set and On your Six---I don't think they even fly for Delta--and they are allowed an opinion---

No one said they couldn’t post their opinions. But if they want to post BS, regardless for whom they fly, they should be prepared for debate. They won’t have their Daddy GL around forever to protect them.

 

[1-tacan-rule]

for what it's worth

I have flown delta almost exclusively and I can honestly say I have noticed a change in service. Last week I was flying out of ATL and the agent asks me my FFM# and I didn't have it. He tosses me all kinds of cr@p and hits a few computer keys and retrieves it. Then he lectures me that I really need to have that # available. I'm thinking: "f you dude, it took you all of 8 seconds to get it for me, I'm a gold medallion mbr, and you give me a ration?". Story 2, riding shuttle from terminal to terminal in LAX and it's me and about 9 delta FAs. They are just b!itching and b!tching about the company and the mood only turned positive when one asks the group: "you know what song stands for?......same ol nasty girls". Having said all that, i don't think tons of customers leave for these reasons. Most travelers will fly with the cheapest carrier, period. Dave, please don't be mean to me...my feelings get hurt easily.

 

[On Your Six]

Hey Dave (or should I say "Dad"),

Ever consider becoming the Pope? Thank God for your rational thinking and command of logic.... I am entitled to my dang opinion and I, maybe not you, have noticed a precipitous decline in service levels at Delta. I, not you, have experienced this on many occassions. Do you get it? You are so holier-than-thou that other peoples' opinions should be completely disregarded. I like fun, easy-going flight attendants - maybe you prefer old bags who treat you like dirt despite the fact that you have paid $500 for a one-way ticket... If given a choice, I may stop flying Delta given the crap service I have been exposed to lately - and that's my choice....

Sure, I understand the seniority concept - you can't get around that. For that reason, I am hopeful that Delta can ultimately restore its profitability (after pay cuts and some future fuel hedging if that is possible) and return to better customer service levels. I hope this includes hiring back some of the perky flight attendents who were furloughed - unless they have been hired by AirTran, Jet Blue and SWA.

GL doesn't have to protect me. I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours. I don't know where you got your attitude. Thanks Dad for your commentary...

 

[BoilerUP]

Dave,

Seems to me either your significant other is an older Delta FA, or you didn't get a job offer from them. Either way, you sure have it out for the DL employees (and their opinions) on this board...

Let's assume Delta might has the oldest flight attendants, and their attitude is affecting customer service. That doesn't in itself mean customers are gonna start bailing to Airtran, jetBlue or SWA. But when you combine that with rude gate agents and generally poor customer service all the way around, passengers start jumping ship. I think thats what everybody has been saying. Not laying the blame solely on the FAs, but one would be naive to say it was not a contributing factor.

I flew on American STL-MCO last New Year's Eve, and man did that flight have some b!tchy "stews" on it. I found it somewhat ironic older American FAs were flying on an ex-TWA airplane with TWA logos still on the galley carts, but thats for another thread. This example serves as proof that older FAs with poor customer service skills are not exclusive to DAL, but the whole major airline system. I mean no disrespect towards older people or older FAs, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then....

Mellow out and start drinking decaf, it might do you some good...

 

[HoursHore]

Off Topic

Did any one else see USA Today involuntary boarding # for Delta? 10000 plus? And that doesn't include ASA or Comair. How can Delta continue to lose money when A) they already fly the most passengers in CONUS. B) they have the potential to fly even more? These numbers are also Sans national advertising. When is the last time you saw a Delta Ad? I haven't seen one since "we love to fly and it shows."

The revenue is there to be mined. Any one who traveled thru ATL this weekend can see psgrs are back to not only pre 9/11 levels, but to year 2000 levels.

Non reving is going to suck this summer

 

[~~~^~~~]

Any one who traveled thru ATL this weekend can see psgrs are back to not only pre 9/11 levels, but to year 2000 levels.

Yes, but this time two and one half times more of them are getting on a different carrier. Buy Airtran stock.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Off Topic

Did any one else see USA Today involuntary boarding # for Delta? 10000 plus? And that doesn't include ASA or Comair. How can Delta continue to lose money when A) they already fly the most passengers in CONUS. B) they have the potential to fly even more?

Answer : Contract 2000

Contract 2000 took all the money Delta made during a bubble and distributed it amongst the pilots. There was no way the bubble was going to last and no way that Delta was going to be able to pay the fourth year numbers. I wrote this ( actually quoting a DAL Chief Pilot ) back in the Spring of 2001 and nothing has changed to alter my forecast of bankruptcy in fourth quarter 04, or first quarter 05. I might be off by one quarter, but I'm sticking with my forecast.

At the same time Contract 2000 expanded pay rates to the unsupportable level, it hamstrung Delta into buying inefficient aircraft below an arbtrary seat number rather than expanding mainline (at the aforementioned unsupportable wage levels ).

Oh well, it was good for senior retiree's who got what they wanted before getting out. It was also good for Airtran who has announced plans to double in size, operating the equipment Delta should have on order.

The Delta pilots refuse to see their MEC as the author of their misfortune, so don't expect much to change anytime soon. The MEC leadership and Delta management lack the political will to take aggressive action, it will be easier to "blame" the necessary restructuring on a Bankruptcy Judge.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Answer : Contract 2000

Contract 2000 took all the money Delta made during a bubble and distributed it amongst the pilots. There was no way the bubble was going to last and no way that Delta was going to be able to pay the fourth year numbers. I wrote this ( actually quoting a DAL Chief Pilot ) back in the Spring of 2001 and nothing has changed to alter my forecast of bankruptcy in fourth quarter 04, or first quarter 05. I might be off by one quarter, but I'm sticking with my forecast.

At the same time Contract 2000 expanded pay rates to the unsupportable level, it hamstrung Delta into buying inefficient aircraft below an arbtrary seat number rather than expanding mainline (at the aforementioned unsupportable wage levels ).

Oh well, it was good for senior retiree's who got what they wanted before getting out. It was also good for Airtran who has announced plans to double in size, operating the equipment Delta should have on order.

The Delta pilots refuse to see their MEC as the author of their misfortune, so don't expect much to change anytime soon. The MEC leadership and Delta management lack the political will to take aggressive action, it will be easier to "blame" the necessary restructuring on a Bankruptcy Judge.

Fins;

How short sighted of you! Don't you know that it is Delta's senior FAs, who are not 'young and perky', that is the cause of passengers defecting to AirTran?

The MEC just told us what a great job they did at getting the recalls. The current situation couldn't possibly be their fault.

 

[spanky2]

Can always count on Fins to bring DALPA MEC into the thread. DALPA has recognized the need to help the company and will thru proper negotiations. Problem at Delta is lack of leadership (it will take years to repair damage done by the Leo regime) and a plan. They have lost the concept of customer service and what brought Delta to the status it once had. Delta has chased passengers away thru lack of a vision. 10,000+ denied a seat...YGBSM...but these pax probably got some of those great Delta dollars. Comments about advertising are spot on...we have all seen the UAL TV adds...pretty cool....even ATA and AA are gettign some TV time...nothing from Mama D except company memos about support for gay pride week events. The pax are back, they are just flying elsewhere. I think GG is trying to fix things and return Delta to its roots...but he is swimming up stream and needs some help....from everyone who gets a paycheck from Delta...even Fins.

 

[Swede]

Dave,

I flew on American STL-MCO last New Year's Eve, and man did that flight have some b!tchy "stews" on it. I found it somewhat ironic older American FAs were flying on an ex-TWA airplane with TWA logos still on the galley carts, but thats for another thread. This example serves as proof that older FAs with poor customer service skills are not exclusive to DAL, but the whole major airline system. I mean no disrespect towards older people or older FAs, but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then....

QUOTE]

Given the timing and the origin of your leg, these were probably pi$$ed-off TWA FA's, not AA. In general, though, I agree with the premise that older FA's, simply beat down with the weight of too many years, bad contracts, not enough rest, etc. have a hard time providing the same level of cheerful service that a new hire would have, for whom it is still "glamorous" to work a Phoenix-DFW leg at 2:00 AM. The widebody long-haul trips are staffed with 12 Grandmothers... many excellent, but many more basically hacked at the world and putting out a bare minimum of service.

 

[DLslug]

Man you guys!!


I am new, but everyone is sure an expert about everything!

I am going to stick to the point. I don't think that Delta FA's are necessarily any better or worse than any other airline. Gimme a break, some have good days and bad. My experience on many carriers is just that; some people are really customer service oriented and do their job well, while others really don't want to be there.

I don't care what airline you fly for or ride on, I think this point can be applied to all. So everyone take some personal responsiblitiy and make your next flight a good one for your passengers. It's our job!

All for now.

DLslug

 

[skiddriver]

As a guest on Delta flights anywhere from 10-15 times a month (commutes and company deadheads) over the last 2 years it is my experience that the F/A's I've met are generally friendly and helpful, as are the folks up front for that occasional jumpseat, even though I almost always travel in my (Comair) uniform.

I think Delta Mgt has jerked the cabin crews around quite a bit (closing the bases in New Orleans, Portland, etc. in a blatant attempt to drive some of these folks into retiring/resigning comes to mind), but they seem to be maintaining their professionalism pretty well. Of course, it may help that I'm closer in age to the current F/A's than the furloughed ones; and that I find a smile and a polite "thank you" seems to brighten up some of the folks throughout the airline system who are having a bad day.

 

[wildcat]

so.. Here's the question...

If, as Six says, old flight attendants are a problem, should DL, AA etc., lobby the feds for
a mandatory retirement age for f/as? Not just for customer service, but also, because
airlines and f/as insist their job is safety related as I agree it is. I'm only 27, and I have
trouble imagining being able to do the job when I'm aged.

What should that age be? 60?