Airport security

[Ismokedya]

I have wasted too much time reading threads about the security problems faced by airline crews. We now know that our unions are ill-equiped to deal with this on their own. We must take action. Remember we are prohibited from job actions against our employers but not against the TSA(yet).

From now on I call on all flight crew to refuse to be searched in public. If you must be searched demand a private room. You must do this for the public and for yourselves. No one feels better when five men of aribic decent go through with out a second look yet the flight crew gets the full treatment. Additionally, if we all agree to do this the time wasted will start to total up. We know that even if it wasted huge amounts of their time it would not make flying any less safe. It would howeveer force more public pressure on the TSA-holes to be more efficent. When PAX must wait an hour in line to get through they will whine. When they whine enough the media listens. That applies the pressure to those reponsible for these programs. If we are a large time consuming problem for them they will have to amend the current process.

This is an ambitious project. One that can not work with out unity of the entire pilot and cabin crew community. I call on all of you to participate in this project.

 

[WrightAvia]

we could save half the TSA's time by...

Installing secure digital datalink automation in airliners to replace the SIC's, then passing regs to allow single pilot 121 LARGE aircraft operations. Half as many pilots to screen would make life easier on the TSA. Efforts should be made to relax cabin regs also...so that a video tape presentation would replace the flight attendants. No attendants to screen...that would really save some time. Relax liability laws so that the airlines would not be responsible for the pax that don't want to read the directions on how to exit the plane or know how to deploy the slide or how to and when, to wear the seat belts or stow the tray tables. Vending machines in the galley area, would be available for the meals, snacks and sodas. One thing that would be sorted out at the begining of this new era of BUS travel...the pilot would not have to make change for the snack machines, as the new planes will have a totally separate crew compartment from the passenger cabin.

 

[Drifter]

WrightAvia, are you serious?

 

[saabcaptain]

I think the second post was a sarcastic response to the first posts suggestion...

 

[FracPilot]

First post was a good idea, second post was a bunch of crap IMHO

A good idea? Yeah right. You cause a scene by refusing to be searched in public, and the TSA automatically declares you a security theat. They pull your license. Then what?

Let people that don't have to deal with these people every day deal with it. They don't have to worry about losing their license for some stupid, undisclosed reason.

 

[metrodriver]

Maybe the vending machine isn't such a stupid one, an extra source of income for the airline, especially since they all are cutting back on foodservice....... they already let you on board with the whoppers and bigmacs

 

[350DRIVER]

From now on I call on all flight crew to refuse to be searched in public. If you must be searched demand a private room

With all due respect, let's get real and face reality. I would say that 99.99999% of ALL flight crews are willing and will continue to "cooperate" with TSA to the utmost. I have a bad feeling that you are not going to be able to pursuade too many to "demand" (as you put it) anything at the security check point....


3 5 0

 

[WrightAvia]

Future Shock!

Maybe we wont have ground based secure digital data link systems on aircraft in the near future...maybe we will. There are companies that have already developed the system and are trying to get it in your cockpits. It's a system that can recognize crew incapacitation, take over and fly an aircraft to a safe landing at a selected airport. How long will it be before airline management gets wind of this marvel of modern technology, places it in cockpits and puts pressure on the FEDS to allow single pilot large aircraft operations? Heck, they have talking car systems now...you can actually tell a device in your car to do things for you and it recognizes your voice.

It correlates over to airport security...and was just food for thought, black humor if you will. Ground based secure digital datalink in cockpits, is the wave of the future... be afraid...very afraid.

As far as standing in line with the TSA, I wouldn't protest while in line, they can consider anything you do a threat. I would say you better be lobbying someone that considers you a constituant.

Have any of you guys got on the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations and poked around Title 49? Specifically the chapters dealing with the TSA and Airport security?

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_49/49cfr1542_00.html

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_49/49cfr1503_00.html

Dig around in there if you have any questions on airport security and the TSA...dry reading, but so aren't all of the code of federal regulations.

 

[WrightAvia]

Notice I didn't say pilot- LESS flight, nor did I say that a guy in blue coveralls and round patch with "bob" written on it was waiting to swap out the right seat of an airliner, for some new autonomous avionics...today.

The President has already alluded to the fact that they are looking into researching systems...and you can scroll down and look right at where Bush says so...it's highlighted for easy locating...

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Security_Issues/text_of_bush_security_speech.html

A really good place to look at, concerning "robotic flight" and terrorism, is here at this second link. Lots of food for thought.

Have you ever given credence to the thought, that if you as a PILOT are affraid enough of terrorists taking over your plane that you feel the NEED TO BE ARMED, that passengers and the government may use that fear to launch the implementation of autonomous flight programs and THAT technology could in the future, LEAD to the elimination of second in command in aircraft by airline management portraying the SIC as over redundant MAN power. It's food for thought...obviously because even the PRESIDENT has thought about the ability to override airliners and have them landed...by remote control or autonomous systems.

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/RoboLander_files/RoboLander.htm

This isn't science fiction. Besides...If you are riding on an airliner and the co pilot is all of say, 600 total time and is on his first day of IOE...isn't that the same as a one pilot airliner? I know I don't want to find out what would happen if the Captain was disabled in such a scenario.

I have been looking for the press relase of the company that said they had the equipment and technology to implement the ground based overide of airliners through secure digital data link. I read that article and it was about a company that was offering stock to the public. I just can't find that specific article. However a search on www.google.com of autonomous flight, will lead you to thousands of links, from people that are writing papers on it for college engineering programs to companies that write software for such things. Don't forget the military.

Another thought to ponder...with the advent of the largest airliner ever... the big airbus. Do you think the almost 600 passengers that will board, will want to think that ONLY the resources of TWO people up front, hiding behind a bullet resistant door, with pistols locked in nondescript lock boxes is good enough? Maybe on 9/10/01, they did think that.

 

[Singlecoil]

Another thought to ponder...with the advent of the largest airliner ever... the big airbus. Do you think the almost 600 passengers that will board, will want to think that ONLY the resources of TWO people up front, hiding behind a bullet resistant door, with pistols locked in nondescript lock boxes is good enough? Maybe on 9/10/01, they did think that.

So first you argue that management wants to put only one pilot on large aircraft, then TWO aren't enough?

There will never be less than two pilots on airliners. Two words: Kidney Stones. Completely debilitating, and difficult to predict. Once or twice a year, the pilot in your single pilot world would be incapacitated, forcing some sort of automated landing? You wouldn't find too many people getting back on those planes.

 

[FracPilot]

Sure, let them deal with it. Then, next time they are going to Disneyland from Atlanta, what do you think they will do... get fondled by the TSA, or drive the Minivan? The flying public is simply not informed enough, and doesn't realize the significance to Flight Crews of the changes. They DON'T go through every day. For each family, on average, they will go through security maybe six times? Flight crews go through security six times in a day sometimes. The crews are who SEE this happen. If crews are the ones with the MOST exposure, shouldn't they have the best suggestions for ways to improve?

I guess I should have been a little bit more specific. When I said let the people that don't have a license at risk deal with it I was not referring to the general public. I was referring to representatives of the airline or Union. If you, as a pilot, refuse search and tell them that they can only search you if in a private area, you will probably be declared a security threat and lose your license. If you pass on all the information to a third party, who them deals with the TSA directly, then you are not in a position that they could declare you a security risk for that.

The general public doesn't give a $#!t about pilots being searched. Most of them are smart enough to know that they have no need to take a banned item aboard an aircraft since they have the ultimate weapon under their complete control once they get in the cockpit.

 

[Singlecoil]

One more thing: Ask pilots around here how much they enjoy doing zero/zero autoland operations. I'm sure most aren't very comfortable with it. I am not saying scared. I'm just saying comfortable.

I'm not aware of anyone who does zero/zero autoland operations. A lot of operators do 600 RVR autoland and some do 600 RVR hand-flown operations, but not lower than 600 RVR.

 

[ArcherB]

Fly Chicaga I am with you! I think we need to have two pilots in the front and yes that airbus crash does say alot. Also consider the price of implementing these systems in all existing airliners.

 

[XGmaninGA]

There are two very simple reasons why a ground based override automated system will not be implemented on airliners.

1. Certification. What is its failure mode? Any system which cannot be overidden by a pilot will not be certified for human flight. Therefore, terrorists could also override it.

2. Terrorists. With a ground based (i.e. radio based) system. The bad guys no longer need to die to use aircraft as missiles. They only need to hack into the system. And don't tell me about encryption, etc. It can be done. There is a reason our ballistic missiles don't have a self destruct capability. Same reasoning applies to here.