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Airport security and you
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328dude
Still turning two
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Well in CVG, they always make me take my shoes off, so I went through one day without any socks on. Should have seen there faces.
Another is Evansville. They made me drink about half of my water bottle. Guess they wanted to make sure I wouldn't die in front of them. and to top it all off, they had a fit about a US pin I was wearing cause they said the backing was to long and could be used as a weapon. I'm like " What the *&$%." I said, "Lady, I can choke you with my tie, and leave you for dead under your fancy screening table you have here." Leave me alone you scaly dragon.
Owell, another day, another dime.
Another is Evansville. They made me drink about half of my water bottle. Guess they wanted to make sure I wouldn't die in front of them. and to top it all off, they had a fit about a US pin I was wearing cause they said the backing was to long and could be used as a weapon. I'm like " What the *&$%." I said, "Lady, I can choke you with my tie, and leave you for dead under your fancy screening table you have here." Leave me alone you scaly dragon.
Owell, another day, another dime.
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Bluestreak
Fitty-Six F100's rock
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 375
How nice to see the security goons are keeping the skies safe from flight crews.After surrendering my tweezers in LGA,I felt like yelling "I STILL HAVE A CRASH AXE AND A FLARE GUN ! I DRIVE THE FREAKIN' BUS,MORON ! I DON'T NEED NO STEENKIN' TWEEZERS !",but thought better of it.The day I hafta remove my shoes will be the day I show up wearing flip-flops.I saw it in "Impressions Of Excellence",honest.
Ravengirl
Sierra Whiskey!
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- Nov 25, 2001
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- 211
this was a fun one...
Well, I'm far from a career pilot. But at 5 Wednesday morning I was stopped going through security at LAX because my belt buckle set off the metal detector. Bad scene, man...
I was frisked not once but twice. I got the magic metal detecting wand, and then I was asked to take off my belt. They inspected my pager and phone, searched my books for something (razor blades?), and then went through my wallet (do they have the right? I'm not sure). When they saw my pilot certificate I got this look from all three of them. (Yes, three security personnel were on me). Then they wanted to see my tickets and itinerary. Then they asked about my eyedrops and water bottle. I had to put my eyedrops in and drink some of the water. Meanwhile, my sister was on the other side of the checkpoint laughing, and there were 500 pissed off travelers behind me.
Don't feel bad, it happens to us little people too. *chuckles*
Ravengirl
Well, I'm far from a career pilot. But at 5 Wednesday morning I was stopped going through security at LAX because my belt buckle set off the metal detector. Bad scene, man...
I was frisked not once but twice. I got the magic metal detecting wand, and then I was asked to take off my belt. They inspected my pager and phone, searched my books for something (razor blades?), and then went through my wallet (do they have the right? I'm not sure). When they saw my pilot certificate I got this look from all three of them. (Yes, three security personnel were on me). Then they wanted to see my tickets and itinerary. Then they asked about my eyedrops and water bottle. I had to put my eyedrops in and drink some of the water. Meanwhile, my sister was on the other side of the checkpoint laughing, and there were 500 pissed off travelers behind me.
Don't feel bad, it happens to us little people too. *chuckles*
Ravengirl
There is a movement to train and deputize us as federal law enforcement officers so that we may legally be armed at all times.
There are arguments on both sides of this issue, but one compelling reason that I can see for doing this is that it would finally put an end to the ongoing humiliation of being frisked everyday.
Another benefit is that it may lead to a speedier return of our jump seat privileges since we would no longer be mere pilots who should not be trusted with fingernail clippers or to sit in a cockpit jumpseat.
Of course, there are also some who think that being armed may actually serve as an additional defense of the cockpit in the event of another 9/11. Just a thought.
There are arguments on both sides of this issue, but one compelling reason that I can see for doing this is that it would finally put an end to the ongoing humiliation of being frisked everyday.
Another benefit is that it may lead to a speedier return of our jump seat privileges since we would no longer be mere pilots who should not be trusted with fingernail clippers or to sit in a cockpit jumpseat.
Of course, there are also some who think that being armed may actually serve as an additional defense of the cockpit in the event of another 9/11. Just a thought.
Bend over and watch the bad guys go by
You sure hit on a sore spot. I will try to keep this civil so I will keep the board out of trouble and the FBI from my door. Since we are all suspect I am sure that this board is reviewed for secret messages. So much for freedom of speech and all that good stuff.
Number one-the FAA needs to get out of the security business. While I am knocking them I will say best decesion that was historically made by the FAA was 9/11. Getting all the aircraft out of our airspace and on the ground saved a lot of lives and I must commend the FAA on the decesion, my hat goes off to them. The FAA is around to promote aviation, so how are they suppose to get aircraft in the air yet make sure they are secure-they can't. All this security stuff is simply to make the public feel more secure. If waiting in line for 2.0 hours to go through security makes a passenger feel secure, the passengers need a lesson on terrorism. You will not stop a professional terrorist. They think diffrent than all of us. They have an objective and to achieve that objective they have no time limit. Profiling is useless, in no time a terrorist will figure out what the profile is then change his mo. Who needs weapons???Now I am going to shut up at this point. I just came back from flying 3 months in Europe, in Europe the passengers are searched-all of them at the gate-the captain has the option of negating that search if things are running behind. All bags are checked via machine for explosives and they are matched to the passengers. I have no problem with that, I hope our system gets to that point.
The weakness is that ramp security is non-exsistant, and that is the weak link.
As for problems as a pilot, bang you hit the profile, male,31-45, any type of mideastern name, air carrier background etc.etc. So all I can say is bend over enjoy the frisking why you watch the bad guys walk by. It is just disgusting that as professionals you have to put up with all this. I was on USair the other day and stood up, the guys two rows back about had a heart attack. I went to the rear to use the restroom as I didn't want a riot on the airplane if I used the front lav. People are scared and that is ridiculous, I blame the media for terroistic coverage for that.(they have been a tool of the terrorist, and they don't even know it) The only nice thing about that if someone stands up in an aircraft and says,"I am a terrorist, I hope that even the "grandma's" will jump on him and start hitting him with their in- flight magazine. Reguardless we are going to have to put up with it for a time. At least until the next airplane, then they will be chasing businessman with brief cases that bought thier tickets 2 months in advance. The bad part is that as a paying customer I wouldn't go anywhere near an airport for business or vacation-and that should concern all of us.Please forgive any misspelled words I miss my spell check.....
You sure hit on a sore spot. I will try to keep this civil so I will keep the board out of trouble and the FBI from my door. Since we are all suspect I am sure that this board is reviewed for secret messages. So much for freedom of speech and all that good stuff.
Number one-the FAA needs to get out of the security business. While I am knocking them I will say best decesion that was historically made by the FAA was 9/11. Getting all the aircraft out of our airspace and on the ground saved a lot of lives and I must commend the FAA on the decesion, my hat goes off to them. The FAA is around to promote aviation, so how are they suppose to get aircraft in the air yet make sure they are secure-they can't. All this security stuff is simply to make the public feel more secure. If waiting in line for 2.0 hours to go through security makes a passenger feel secure, the passengers need a lesson on terrorism. You will not stop a professional terrorist. They think diffrent than all of us. They have an objective and to achieve that objective they have no time limit. Profiling is useless, in no time a terrorist will figure out what the profile is then change his mo. Who needs weapons???Now I am going to shut up at this point. I just came back from flying 3 months in Europe, in Europe the passengers are searched-all of them at the gate-the captain has the option of negating that search if things are running behind. All bags are checked via machine for explosives and they are matched to the passengers. I have no problem with that, I hope our system gets to that point.
The weakness is that ramp security is non-exsistant, and that is the weak link.
As for problems as a pilot, bang you hit the profile, male,31-45, any type of mideastern name, air carrier background etc.etc. So all I can say is bend over enjoy the frisking why you watch the bad guys walk by. It is just disgusting that as professionals you have to put up with all this. I was on USair the other day and stood up, the guys two rows back about had a heart attack. I went to the rear to use the restroom as I didn't want a riot on the airplane if I used the front lav. People are scared and that is ridiculous, I blame the media for terroistic coverage for that.(they have been a tool of the terrorist, and they don't even know it) The only nice thing about that if someone stands up in an aircraft and says,"I am a terrorist, I hope that even the "grandma's" will jump on him and start hitting him with their in- flight magazine. Reguardless we are going to have to put up with it for a time. At least until the next airplane, then they will be chasing businessman with brief cases that bought thier tickets 2 months in advance. The bad part is that as a paying customer I wouldn't go anywhere near an airport for business or vacation-and that should concern all of us.Please forgive any misspelled words I miss my spell check.....
HAL
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 733
In addition, there is the "profiling" system they use to pull people over for the "extra special" search. There are number of things that set off the bells, and that includes buying a ticket at the last minute. Gee, guess what happens when scheduling calls and deadheads you somewhere in a hurry - a last minute ticket. So there you are, rushing to get to another base - in uniform sometimes - and Whoop Whoop, your bag gets the bomb sniffer, and you get nearly strip searched at the gate. (That promotes a lot of confidence in the passengers, when a uniformed pilot is getting completely searched at the gate).
Someone needs to really pull their heads out of the dark holes.
HAL
Someone needs to really pull their heads out of the dark holes.
HAL
dispatchguy
Dad is my favorite title
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DFW
My favorite indication of the sheer stupidity of it all was one day when commuting thru the B concourse, and some of the security goons was WANDING one of the Army dudes.
His arms are all stretched out, HES HOLDING HIS M16 IN HIS HAND, but he was nail clipper free!
I had to stop, and stare, along with an AA captain. The look in the AA guys eyes said it all; the complete, sheer, and utter stupidity. I didnt stick around to see if they wanted to xray his steel-toed jump boots.
My favorite indication of the sheer stupidity of it all was one day when commuting thru the B concourse, and some of the security goons was WANDING one of the Army dudes.
His arms are all stretched out, HES HOLDING HIS M16 IN HIS HAND, but he was nail clipper free!
I had to stop, and stare, along with an AA captain. The look in the AA guys eyes said it all; the complete, sheer, and utter stupidity. I didnt stick around to see if they wanted to xray his steel-toed jump boots.
HAL said:
That's ridiculous.
Did you know that the FAA specifically exempted uniformed crewmwmbers on duty from gate searches? The gate agents won't tell you that. They like the power trip.
Don't let them harass you in uniform in front of the pax. ALPA is advising us to demand a private screening area out of plain sight from the passengers. How can we hold authority over these people after having them see our dirty underwear?
If they won't screen you privately, especially those not-so-random gate checks, then refuse. Call your MEC and advise them of the situation. Don't let your own company treat you this way.
What are you smoking
Your little MEC is useless and so is ALPA when it comes to that little security person at the gate.I sent a complaint to our union and they just sent me back a bid smiley face. My flight was delayed 15 minutes out of BWI going to KEF the other day as the captain(yours truly)was held up at the gate while I was being strip searched. They sent my flight bag through three times, all my flight attendants and my female first officer went through like a breeze. Even the guardsman with an M-16 standing next to me was trying to keep from laughing. There I am with no belt, no shoes and a flight bag unpacked, all my charts, ETOPS charts and everything else spread all over the place. I did get a great look at ground zero on the flight up, though I might get a sexual harasement charge from my FO as I tried to see it through her window. Great fun, but this month I bid all turns. Now they are telling us that we can't taxi our aircraft to the gates, we have to go through all this. I guess the 10 year background checks etc., etc. just don't cut it. I hate to admit it but I think the FBI is on the right track-he who is guilty just step forward. I am glad I only have 14 more years to go, I never thought I would say that.
Your little MEC is useless and so is ALPA when it comes to that little security person at the gate.I sent a complaint to our union and they just sent me back a bid smiley face. My flight was delayed 15 minutes out of BWI going to KEF the other day as the captain(yours truly)was held up at the gate while I was being strip searched. They sent my flight bag through three times, all my flight attendants and my female first officer went through like a breeze. Even the guardsman with an M-16 standing next to me was trying to keep from laughing. There I am with no belt, no shoes and a flight bag unpacked, all my charts, ETOPS charts and everything else spread all over the place. I did get a great look at ground zero on the flight up, though I might get a sexual harasement charge from my FO as I tried to see it through her window. Great fun, but this month I bid all turns. Now they are telling us that we can't taxi our aircraft to the gates, we have to go through all this. I guess the 10 year background checks etc., etc. just don't cut it. I hate to admit it but I think the FBI is on the right track-he who is guilty just step forward. I am glad I only have 14 more years to go, I never thought I would say that.
XJAVRO
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PilotV
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Eye on the Ball people!
Just as you have been "violated", so have I through the security gates. There is one thing to remember folks, those people are trying their hardest to keep the skies safe, they just don't know any other way to do it! They are trying to do their job the best they can and finally taking it serious! I think we need to do the same.
Is it really THAT bad?!?
If you want to complain so much about such a petty thing, (being 10 minutes late, being checked personally with the wand, having your bags checked, etc...) why don't you change your profession to something like .... say .....
A NY Firefighter, or a NY police officer!
We need to be willing to do our part while things get sorted out here. Granted the FAA was behind the times and security checks were anything but secure, but they're trying. We need to be supportive!
Let's keep our eye on the big picture here...... Thousands of people died, can't we respect the memory of those that have given their lives by doing what we can to help prevent this from happening ever again?
Someone mentioned that checking a uniformed flight officer was seemingly ludicrous.... I STRONGLY disagree!! I think NOT checking uniformed flight personnel would be ludicrous! Don't you think that those that intend to do harm would figure that out and try to get through security in that fashion?!?
I don't like getting 'strip searched' any more than the next guy, but I do think it's part of my civil duty.
Sorry if this seems somewhat confrontational, I just get tired of people forgetting the reason for all of this and getting so upset over such petty things when you consider the big picture.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
Just as you have been "violated", so have I through the security gates. There is one thing to remember folks, those people are trying their hardest to keep the skies safe, they just don't know any other way to do it! They are trying to do their job the best they can and finally taking it serious! I think we need to do the same.
Is it really THAT bad?!?
If you want to complain so much about such a petty thing, (being 10 minutes late, being checked personally with the wand, having your bags checked, etc...) why don't you change your profession to something like .... say .....
A NY Firefighter, or a NY police officer!
We need to be willing to do our part while things get sorted out here. Granted the FAA was behind the times and security checks were anything but secure, but they're trying. We need to be supportive!
Let's keep our eye on the big picture here...... Thousands of people died, can't we respect the memory of those that have given their lives by doing what we can to help prevent this from happening ever again?
Someone mentioned that checking a uniformed flight officer was seemingly ludicrous.... I STRONGLY disagree!! I think NOT checking uniformed flight personnel would be ludicrous! Don't you think that those that intend to do harm would figure that out and try to get through security in that fashion?!?
I don't like getting 'strip searched' any more than the next guy, but I do think it's part of my civil duty.
Sorry if this seems somewhat confrontational, I just get tired of people forgetting the reason for all of this and getting so upset over such petty things when you consider the big picture.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
Hurting world
50,000 people died in India, and another bunch in Bangladesh and America didn't give it a second thought. We loose 5,000 and make a big deal about it. What makes the 5,000 we lost more precious than the other countries. Think about it. Who knows how many lives have been lost as we vent our fury..... I am an American and proud of it, my heritage goes back to the 1600's when my relatives came over from England. The world doesn't understand why we think we are so special, so people died, it happens. I lost my brother-in-law to terrorism and my sister suffered for 5 years as "they" chased her. I feel for those that are suffering like you wouldn't believe, but our hurt is no diffrent from the rest of the world. We need to wake up and take what we have been blessed with and give it to help others, who have nothing......
50,000 people died in India, and another bunch in Bangladesh and America didn't give it a second thought. We loose 5,000 and make a big deal about it. What makes the 5,000 we lost more precious than the other countries. Think about it. Who knows how many lives have been lost as we vent our fury..... I am an American and proud of it, my heritage goes back to the 1600's when my relatives came over from England. The world doesn't understand why we think we are so special, so people died, it happens. I lost my brother-in-law to terrorism and my sister suffered for 5 years as "they" chased her. I feel for those that are suffering like you wouldn't believe, but our hurt is no diffrent from the rest of the world. We need to wake up and take what we have been blessed with and give it to help others, who have nothing......
Re: Eye on the Ball people!
My issue isn't with them personally. It's with the rules they try to follow. It is nothing but a show.
Yes... it is.
In your opinion...
But we must not gove up our freedom in the hopes of getting security. In doing so you will get neither.
Do you honestly believe that this "enhanced" security show will stop a dedicated terrorist? They know the profiles to avoid. They will get on if they want to. Harassing flight crews in uniform just to make a scene for the passengers isn't the answer.
That would be me. I didn't say don't check us. I said don't haras us in front of passengers just to make a point. They are singling us out to make the pax say "well if the pilot's checked that well, then it must be really safe". I don't want to be a part of this sham.
"Civil duty"? This isn't a police state. Giving up your freedom is hardly patriotic.
So am I. But let's not play into their hands. I intend to fight for my rights as a citizen and also to keep our profession respectable.
I find your statement sad and disheartening. The greatest injustice we can do is to allow the terrorist attacks to take away our freedom.
The US Constitution expressly provides protection from unreasonable search and seizuure. If you don't want to stand up for your rights, that's your choice, but don't degrade me for standing up for mine.
PilotV said:
My issue isn't with them personally. It's with the rules they try to follow. It is nothing but a show.
Yes... it is.
In your opinion...
But we must not gove up our freedom in the hopes of getting security. In doing so you will get neither.
Do you honestly believe that this "enhanced" security show will stop a dedicated terrorist? They know the profiles to avoid. They will get on if they want to. Harassing flight crews in uniform just to make a scene for the passengers isn't the answer.
That would be me. I didn't say don't check us. I said don't haras us in front of passengers just to make a point. They are singling us out to make the pax say "well if the pilot's checked that well, then it must be really safe". I don't want to be a part of this sham.
"Civil duty"? This isn't a police state. Giving up your freedom is hardly patriotic.
So am I. But let's not play into their hands. I intend to fight for my rights as a citizen and also to keep our profession respectable.
I find your statement sad and disheartening. The greatest injustice we can do is to allow the terrorist attacks to take away our freedom.
The US Constitution expressly provides protection from unreasonable search and seizuure. If you don't want to stand up for your rights, that's your choice, but don't degrade me for standing up for mine.
FlyToVegas
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PilotV
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Re: Re: Eye on the Ball people!
I believe the point you make is very valid, though I also believe that in times of war unusual measures are sometimes required.
I worry when people say' "I'll stand up for America, but only to the point where my liberties come into quesiton."
You quote the constitutional right for the protection of unreasonable search and seizure and I respect that, I'll quote the Declaration of Independence, something I am certain your heritage greatly respects:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Within this quote you will read that all have the 'right' to Life. Then let me pose these questions;
Were the rights of those that are drafted by our military and forced to die for Your freedom violated?
Are we not seeking Liberty at the cost of Life and Happiness? Which is more important?
I believe you bring up many very good points in your response, and I value people's opinions. I agree that we can not allow our rights to be 'permanently removed'. Though I also feel that I am willing to bend a bit more than usual to try to help the effort here. Once again, just my opinion.
You ask if I believe if the 'enhanced' security will thwart a possible attack. Well, I just don't know. Although I will tell you that it is something, it is a step in the right direction, albeit somewhat haphazard, but it is something. In addition, are we offering up better ideas, or are we just the just the pissed off fan sitting in the comfort of their warm cushioned chair with a blanket and coffee on the sideline yelling at the players that they are 'doing it all wrong, and need to try harder'?
I believe we are dangerously close to the latter. It is always easier to strike down others ideas than to come up with your own and step out on the limb yourself.
To comment on your inferrence that my statement about 'Civil Duty' was indicative of a police state, I must say it was a misunderstanding. I was simply thinking patriotic duty.
You later went on to say that you want to fight for your rights as a civilian and to keep our profession respectable ...... Kudos, I applaud and respect that greatly.
As to the great tragedy in India, my heart still goes out to the more than 30,000 that died and the more than 180,000 affected by the quake. I agree that the world did not do enough for them. Although I do not believe that should make me feel bad for being so outraged about what has happened here. Also, India's tragedy was an act of nature, ours was malicious. I do believe this puts it in a little different light.
Once again, I value all opinions and thank you for being so truthful in your postings. I'm glad to see that people are so passionate about their beliefs.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
ifly4food said:
I believe the point you make is very valid, though I also believe that in times of war unusual measures are sometimes required.
I worry when people say' "I'll stand up for America, but only to the point where my liberties come into quesiton."
You quote the constitutional right for the protection of unreasonable search and seizure and I respect that, I'll quote the Declaration of Independence, something I am certain your heritage greatly respects:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Within this quote you will read that all have the 'right' to Life. Then let me pose these questions;
Were the rights of those that are drafted by our military and forced to die for Your freedom violated?
Are we not seeking Liberty at the cost of Life and Happiness? Which is more important?
I believe you bring up many very good points in your response, and I value people's opinions. I agree that we can not allow our rights to be 'permanently removed'. Though I also feel that I am willing to bend a bit more than usual to try to help the effort here. Once again, just my opinion.
You ask if I believe if the 'enhanced' security will thwart a possible attack. Well, I just don't know. Although I will tell you that it is something, it is a step in the right direction, albeit somewhat haphazard, but it is something. In addition, are we offering up better ideas, or are we just the just the pissed off fan sitting in the comfort of their warm cushioned chair with a blanket and coffee on the sideline yelling at the players that they are 'doing it all wrong, and need to try harder'?
I believe we are dangerously close to the latter. It is always easier to strike down others ideas than to come up with your own and step out on the limb yourself.
To comment on your inferrence that my statement about 'Civil Duty' was indicative of a police state, I must say it was a misunderstanding. I was simply thinking patriotic duty.
You later went on to say that you want to fight for your rights as a civilian and to keep our profession respectable ...... Kudos, I applaud and respect that greatly.
As to the great tragedy in India, my heart still goes out to the more than 30,000 that died and the more than 180,000 affected by the quake. I agree that the world did not do enough for them. Although I do not believe that should make me feel bad for being so outraged about what has happened here. Also, India's tragedy was an act of nature, ours was malicious. I do believe this puts it in a little different light.
Once again, I value all opinions and thank you for being so truthful in your postings. I'm glad to see that people are so passionate about their beliefs.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
PilotV
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I completely agree that to truly have freedom, you'll always have to take some chances.
I do want to clarify one thing though, I don't necessarily see the willingness to help out the security effort as "Giving up my freedom" as much as allowing for some forgiveness in the short term.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
I do want to clarify one thing though, I don't necessarily see the willingness to help out the security effort as "Giving up my freedom" as much as allowing for some forgiveness in the short term.
God Bless and Safe Skies!
1900laker
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 117
Although I still mind greatly at the way these "searches" are being conducted, I might be able to tolerate it more if the person who is saying to me "Sir, I need to reach behind your belt buckle" were at least an american citizen. I hope it alarms anyone that reads this that 50% of our nations security screeners are not U.S. Citizens, and that 80% of the screeners at Dulles are not citizens. 80%!!!! and at an airport that is 2nd closest to our nations capital.
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