Airplane expenses being split .. legal vs. illegal

[Vik]

Situation: Lets say I own a light twin.

Now, the FARs clearly state, that people riding with me (either as pax, or splitting flight time) can legally only pay direct expenses related to that flight (fuel, oil and parking). *OBVIOUSLY* it would be a dream come true if those were the only expenses.

Instead of me writing the check monthly for the hanger, can I get one of my flying buddies to pay for it w/o breaking that reg?

Instead of me buying water for the hanger fridge, can I get one of my buddies to buy it? How about food?

Can I get them to buy some of the mx items -- oil filters, new front nose tire, that sort of thing w/o busting that reg?

Then when it comes to flight time, I'm only charging them half the cost of the fuel and oil for the flight time that they are sharing with me.

I don't want to bust the reg but at the same time, I don't want to grow broke. The light twin only burns 16gph ..even at $3.5/gal thats $56 .. say $60/hr worst case w/ oil and all .. so the FAA expects me to charge $30/hr for the plane to someone I'm splitting time with.

Anyway, looking for input and some advice.

Thanks,
Vik

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

If you agree to take them flying and in return you get 5 beers and half the cost of fuel/hanger, you are over your share under the FARs.

I always thought the regs let you include mx items too in the splitting but I only rent so that isn't an issue that I know well.

 

[FN FAL]

Vic, you may want to think about what you are doing when you "SPLIT" the cost of a ride. If you take someone somewhere and the passenger's mission is different than the pilot's, then It is a holding out flight.

For example, you take two couples on a flight to Mall of America and they split the costs with you. You fly them there and you sit in FBO and wait for them...you might as well have charged them for the whole flight plus markup...becuause that is holding out. The feds don't care if you undercharge for flying un-licensed charters.

You can only split costs when the passengers and yourself go somewhere for the same mission. Ie; you are ALL going to the concert or you are ALL going to the football game.

As far as what you can recoup on spliting costs...it's plainly spelled out in an FAR, which I'm sure someone is going to scroll and paste here before too long.

You could charge a guy 1,500 bucks to mow his lawn, then fly him somewhere for free...but then again, you'd be lying.

It isn't just the FEDS to worry about here. If your insurance company has to be asked to go to the limits of coverage to pay for a personal injury, death, or property damage accident...some widow is going to be boo hooing to the insurance company about that "charter" you took her husband on and killed. Read your insurance policy closely. If you violate, they can deny coverage.

 

[FN FAL]

If you agree to take them flying and in return you get 5 beers and half the cost of fuel/hanger, you are over your share under the FARs.

I always thought the regs let you include mx items too in the splitting but I only rent so that isn't an issue that I know well.

You can split the cost of a rental with your passengers...as long as everyone is doing the same thing when you go flying somewhere.
§ 61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

Link to an amendment published at 69 FR 44869, July 27, 2004.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire.

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

(d) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft used in a passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable organization described in paragraph (d)(7) of this section, and for which the passengers make a donation to the organization, when the following requirements are met:

(1) The sponsor of the airlift notifies the FAA Flight Standards District Office with jurisdiction over the area concerned at least 7 days before the event and furnishes—

(i) A signed letter from the sponsor that shows the name of the sponsor, the purpose of the charitable event, the date and time of the event, and the location of the event; and

(ii) A photocopy of each pilot in command's pilot certificate, medical certificate, and logbook entries that show the pilot is current in accordance with §§61.56 and 61.57 of this part and has logged at least 200 hours of flight time.

(2) The flight is conducted from a public airport that is adequate for the aircraft to be used, or from another airport that has been approved by the FAA for the operation.

(3) No aerobatic or formation flights are conducted.

(4) Each aircraft used for the charitable event holds a standard airworthiness certificate.

(5) Each aircraft used for the charitable event is airworthy and complies with the applicable requirements of subpart E of part 91 of this chapter.

(6) Each flight for the charitable event is made during day VFR conditions.

(7) The charitable organization is an organization identified as such by the U.S. Department of Treasury.

(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees, and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:

(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or

(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.

(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200 hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a prospective buyer.

(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of §61.69 of this part may act as pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider.

 

[Vik]

Maybe I should have worded my question a little better.

Lets say they act LIKE partners (aren't partners) and just buy stuff for the plane.

I won't be saying .. "Since we flew 1.5 hrs, and I think the time is worth $80/hr for your share, buy me $80/hr worth of goods."

They're just buying stuff for the plane on their own. They buy water, food, cases of oil, pay the hanger rental .. cut a check to the insurance company, etc.

 

[Weasil]

Vik,

This topic has been covered to death on this forum. Any form of compensation is illegal. People have lost their certificates for receiving something as intangible as "good will" - which the FAA considered a form of compensation. You can word your question however you want... the answer is still NO!

As they say on Saturday Night Live "not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent"

 

[cougar6903]

Situation: Lets say I own a light twin.



Instead of me writing the check monthly for the hanger, can I get one of my flying buddies to pay for it w/o breaking that reg?

Instead of me buying water for the hanger fridge, can I get one of my buddies to buy it? How about food?



Anyway, looking for input and some advice.

Thanks,
Vik

Where are you flying this twin. Natzi Germany?

Despite what the FAR's say, this is still the USA. If you can find a sugar daddy to pay you're hanger fee or buy you food, no matter if its for the hanger or not, its your freedom to choose if you accept it or not.

 

[cougar6903]

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Alright, here is a new twist. You create a flying club which owns the multi aircraft above. Set the prices high enough so that you can get paid the 'real' expenses (or 150% of the real expenses and the CEO [who is you] get the profits at the end of the year - like what CFIs do sometimes to get around being liable for damages if they crash).

Then rent the aircraft from the flying club and have the pax pay half.

I wouldn't do it b/c it sounds like a HELL of alot of paperwork and you would need a lawyer to do it right (and not get fried by the FAA if they found out) but I guess if you wanted more money, it could be done.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

I would say experiment with them paying for stuff because they want to. Let us know how it turns out if the feds find out about it. Then we can all learn from your miserable experience.

Thanks in advance for blazing the trail!!!