Airpac accident at Bayview Apt.

[81Horse]

Thanks for that.

 

[FlyBunny]

chrisrj83, didn't you hear what 81 Horse said?
You should've stopped when SHE/HE told you to!


This person would be a treat to fly with in a two-person crew, wouldn't it? As per her/his advice, majority of NTSB 'Final Reports/Conclusions' would never have been published, which are indeed bases on conjectures and speculations.


It's OK to at least think and share thoughts about what could've happened. I have a friend who worked there few years ago and the CP was always patting pilots on the back who were willing to take up the flight that another pilot thought would be unsafe. CP would even tell others that the person who decided not to fly wasn't a 'good instrument pilot' and that 'was intimidated with low IFR'.


Just look at the fact that this guy (supposedly very safe pilot who always did the right thing) got himself killed shooting an approach when he should never even had tried it (Broken at 100’ AGL - now that's a ceiling, isn't it). Here we're talking 800' AGL ceilings and the MDA is 1,000' AGL. We should discuss this and try to learn from his mistakes. Even if you say his engine might have stopped; he should not have even tried this approach: Weather was below minimums!


My conjecture is that he knew the weather, knew it was below minimums (Part 135 can’t shoot an approach unless you have ASOS/AWOS on the field or current WX report, I believe), went below the mins (1,240 MSL), didn’t see anything, kept going down and lost track of the altimeter…I’m sure we’d find out there’s more to this though. This has happened many times before and sounds like a classic going below minimums to try to get a ground contact and forgetting that the published minimums are there for a REASON.


But, I'm sure, the Airpac CP most likely thinks of him as a 'very good instrument pilot' who gets the job done.


The people I truly feel sorry for are his family!

Oooopppss…81Horse is by now, I’m sure, quite offended.

 

[Launchpad]

Not to get into a pissing contest, but only visibility for the approach is required. On a very general statement, your probably not going to get in on a 800' non precision MDA with a 100' report... It's very common in the NW to have 100' broken at one and clear skies on the other, doesn't hurt to try. Might get in, might not.

As far as what happened.... Who knows, but I wouldn't want people speculating on my behalf-

Peace out-

 

[81Horse]

Flybunny, you don't know your FAR135 regs, and you're wrong about the majority of NTSB reports and conclusions being based on "conjecture."

However, I'm not offended. I'm not even surprised. Nobody piles on dead pilots like other pilots. There are several active threads here demonstrating this sad truth.

And Launchpad is correct -- the actual weather conditions in the NW can change minute by minute. Pilots who won't even go take a look (if the vis is above minimums) will be spending an awful lot of time hangar flying instead of flying.

Yes, it looks like a classic accident; but other factors may be involved that would shed some light. I didn't know Russian Thunder, but on general principle, I always object to total speculation about accidents.

 

[BAT31]

Flybunny, et al-

Since you decided to throw in a second hand "endorsement" about the chief pilot of Airpac, allow me to throw in a first hand one:

I worked at Air Pac as a pilot for almost 2 years. The chief pilot was the same as the current one. There has never, EVER, been a better supervisor of flying that a pilot could work for. Now that's just based on my opinon, 11 years of flying for two different military services, part 135 flying, and part 121 flying. I'm certainly not super experienced, but I've worked for a few chief pilots, DOs, etc. The chief pilot you speak of always backed up the decisions of his pilots. ALWAYS. Did some guys not like flying in low weather and turbulence? Sure. They soon left. Single pilot IFR in the Pacific NW is not a place for those who "can't do" or "won't do". Sorry if that hurts feelings, but sometimes the truth hurts. Maybe your friend was "intimidated by low IFR" as you state. I hope he left. Hopefully he's flight instructing in Arizona where its CAVU most days.

The reality is that serving the customer is what keeps the business going in professional aviation. Whether you are performing military or civilian duties. Pilots sometimes forget that they aren't "the show". Sometimes flying is comprised of long days and uncomfortable situations that are still LEGAL. To add to that, read up on you 135 regs bud.

Speculate all you want. Don't trash a chief pilot who has gone out of his way for years to support the line pilot. I hope I always have a boss like him and I wish the Air Pac guys and gals the best of luck in this unfortunate time.

B31

 

[chrisrj83]

Not to get into a pissing contest, but only visibility for the approach is required. On a very general statement, your probably not going to get in on a 800' non precision MDA with a 100' report... It's very common in the NW to have 100' broken at one and clear skies on the other, doesn't hurt to try. Might get in, might not.

As far as what happened.... Who knows, but I wouldn't want people speculating on my behalf-

Peace out-

I agree, and I don't know how many people here fly into bayview on a regular basis, but the asos there is alomost never right, and has been known to call low vis and ceilings when in fact it's clear.

 

[Hand Commander]

It's OK to at least think and share thoughts about what could've happened. I have a friend who worked there few years ago and the CP was always patting pilots on the back who were willing to take up the flight that another pilot thought would be unsafe. CP would even tell others that the person who decided not to fly wasn't a 'good instrument pilot' and that 'was intimidated with low IFR'.

I've dealt with the CP many times in the past as a ramp rat and have known several people who have flown for the company. This is the first I've ever heard of someone talking bad about the guy. From my experiences and hearing about the experiences of many others, I'll have to agree with BAT31 in saying this guy is an exceptional individual and people who come into contact with him thoroughly enjoy working for him. The flying environment is not for everbody, but for those who pursue it, its a great gig. Maybe your pal didn't have the sand.

 

[FlyboyPhil]

BAT31 is right, I spent 18 months at Airpac and was never asked to do anything illegal or push the minimums. The chief pilot is supportive and the owner is focused on safety. Wait for the NTSB to make their determination before you blame Airpac or the pilot, if at all.

BAT31, tried to PM you but it's disabled, Think we were there at the same time, Phil N. here.. D? there?

 

[BAT31]

PN-

Good to hear from you bro. Yep, it is me ..... or it is I, or whatever. I turned on that PM option. Shoot me an email when you get a chance.

B31

 

[Calvin]

One of the earlier posts said it he was found 2 days later, not true. He was found at first light the following morning, so maybe 12 hours. Thick fog and very low ceilings where the order of the night, hard to see anything, let alone a small twin in the trees.