Airnet/Ameristar vs. the Regionals...

[On Your Six]

I have a nephew who has amassed some good instructing time and he is now debating whether to apply to Airnet/Ameristar or regional airlines like COEX, CHQ, etc.

He has asked me for advice (probably not a good idea) and some pros and cons of each. I have referred him to this website (probably mistake #2) and I would appreciate any advice from people who have considered these options in the past. He is well aware of the terrible state of the airline industry and the constant threat of either furloughs or declining wages/benefits. He is willing to move anywhere to get the right flight time...

He claims that he ultimately (pie in the sky dream) wants to fly for either a leading LCC or UPS/Fedex.

So, what are the pros/cons of flying for Airnet or Ameristar vs. the regionals? At Airnet, how soon could you get into the Lear as an FO and then move to Captain (3-5 years?)? For those who have chosen between the two options, what were the factors that caused you to make that decision - and do you regret the path you chose?

Thanks for any help.

 

[gkrangers]

From what I've read here..1 year till FO on the Lear, and 2-3 years till CA. Its pretty quick.

 

[Windsor]

Pros with cargo
1. Quicker upgrades
2. Better first year pay than most regionals
3. No having to deal with passengers
4. Its fun and challenging flying
Cons
1. Schedual if your on-demand
2. Being on the road a lot
3. Hurry up and wait
4. typically old equipment

It all depends on what your nephew is looking for out of his job. Flying small jets part 135 isnt going to be a straight shot to the LCC's or UPS/FedEx, there needs to be another step in the ladder flying bigger equipment.

Personally I enjoy flying frieght. Its a great job for people that dont mind a few years of low quality of life in a trade off for quicker pic turbine time. Theres a lot of waiting around in the on-demand game, but never knowing where you going from one day to the next is pretty fun and keeps you on your toes.

Regionals typically have really long upgrade times. Up to 6 years at some of them. But they fly nicer equipment, better scheduals and part 121 time is required at some of the larger carriers.

 

[MNR]

The thing with Airnet is its not on demand. Its scheduled. The basic schedule is Monday through Thursday night. Many runs have a Friday or Sunday night as well but basicly its 4 or 5 nights of flying and home every day. There are exceptions to this but in general that is what the schedule is like at Airnet. You are never "on-call" so to speak.

The equipment is definately older but it is well maintained. With the amount of flying the aircraft do at Airnet its in their best intrests to keep the planes up and running. They do a good job of that.

I never regretted working there. I know people who have gone from Airnet to pretty much anywhere. The flying is fun. Your home every day. I have never flown for a Regional so I can't say which is the best route for your nephew. I would however follow the same career path if I had to do over again.

 

[uscpilot]

Pros with cargo
1. Quicker upgrades
2. Better first year pay than most regionals
3. No having to deal with passengers
4. Its fun and challenging flying
Cons
1. Schedual if your on-demand
2. Being on the road a lot
3. Hurry up and wait
4. typically old equipment

It all depends on what your nephew is looking for out of his job. Flying small jets part 135 isnt going to be a straight shot to the LCC's or UPS/FedEx, there needs to be another step in the ladder flying bigger equipment.

Personally I enjoy flying frieght. Its a great job for people that dont mind a few years of low quality of life in a trade off for quicker pic turbine time. Theres a lot of waiting around in the on-demand game, but never knowing where you going from one day to the next is pretty fun and keeps you on your toes.

Regionals typically have really long upgrade times. Up to 6 years at some of them. But they fly nicer equipment, better scheduals and part 121 time is required at some of the larger carriers.

I agree with most of what Windsor said, except for the part about not being able go from 135 to an LCC or UPS/Fedex. In the past month we have lost 2 to SWA. Over the last year more to Jetblue, CAL (Jetride pilot), and one to Airtran (that took some doing what with the 121 time requirement, but no body ever said anything worth doing was easy). I know that the origional poster said nothing about fractionals, but we have lost numerous people to NetJets, Citation Shares, and a couple to Flight Options. Others have moved on to highly sought after part 91 corporate jobs. Sorry for the tangent.
I have been with Airnet for 5 years and I do not regret my decesion to come here over a regional. Had I taken that route in May 01 I would have taken a job at Home Depot or Red Lobster by October 01.
WDR11

 

[Windsor]

I agree with most of what Windsor said, except for the part about not being able go from 135 to an LCC or UPS/Fedex. In the past month we have lost 2 to SWA. Over the last year more to Jetblue, CAL (Jetride pilot), and one to Airtran (that took some doing what with the 121 time requirement, but no body ever said anything worth doing was easy).
WDR11

Yeah, your right about that. We've had people leave to the same places direct from my company. I was thinking more along the lines of FedEx and UPS that are going to want to see heavy time. Everyone I talk to seems to think a jump from lears and falcons is going to be a hard sell. I'm not saying impossible, but extremely difficult. Besides, with those guys, its who you know, not what you know that are the most important factors in getting an interview.

 

[VSI9k+]

My choice was based on the fact that I like to put some bread on the table...and even butter too. I had a pizza brought to my house by a guy from Pizza Hut...he saw a Simuflite manual on my coffee table and asked if I was a pilot. I told him I was and it turned out he flies for Eagle. Ive got nothing against the guy for doing what he has to do...but having to deliver pizza's to make ends meet...while flying 50-70 people around during the day??? Something seems a little wrong with that picture. I really didnt choose the regionals for the fact that Im not going to work for pennies. Im only one person...but if enough guys do it maybe they will get the message one day and actually pay those guys what they are worth. I love flying freight and, as Windsor said, it keeps you on your toes not ever knowing where you are going to be going. Hope this helps in some sort of way, good luck.

 

[uscpilot]

Yeah, your right about that. We've had people leave to the same places direct from my company. I was thinking more along the lines of FedEx and UPS that are going to want to see heavy time. Everyone I talk to seems to think a jump from lears and falcons is going to be a hard sell. I'm not saying impossible, but extremely difficult. Besides, with those guys, its who you know, not what you know that are the most important factors in getting an interview.

Very true. We had one guy that I know of get an interview with Fedex last year, but he did not get the job. He had some help on the inside like everyone else. One Jetride guy went to UPS, but he had prior airline experience. The current Jetride ACP left Airnet back on like 2000 or 01 for Airborne was furloughed right out of class, and came back Airnet. I ran into a guy about 4 years ago with Fedex who also came from Airnet. I said all that to say that it can be done, but it is a bit of a long shot. But if you have the times a clean record, and are persistent, then one would have a good shot with UPS/Fedex.
WDR11

 

[jobear]

OYS,
I'm leaving the commuters to go fly 121 freight; if that don't answer your question I don't know what will.

Jobear

 

[Ready2Fly]

Yeah, your right about that. We've had people leave to the same places direct from my company. I was thinking more along the lines of FedEx and UPS that are going to want to see heavy time. Everyone I talk to seems to think a jump from lears and falcons is going to be a hard sell. I'm not saying impossible, but extremely difficult. Besides, with those guys, its who you know, not what you know that are the most important factors in getting an interview.

Like an RJ is a heavy! I know of guys that went from Ameristar and Airnet to UPS directly with the falcon and lear jet the biggest things they have flown up to then.

 

[beech1900pilot]

50,000 lbs seems pretty heavy to me.

 

[Windsor]

Like an RJ is a heavy! I know of guys that went from Ameristar and Airnet to UPS directly with the falcon and lear jet the biggest things they have flown up to then.

I never said an RJ was a heavy, nor was I implying that. Also, I have never heard of a person going directly to Fed Ex or UPS straight from Ameristar with just lear and falcon time. For heavy time, I've know guys that went on to Gemini, Polar, Omni, ect, before they got their interviews. Maby in the past the jump has been made, but not in the last 5 years or so.

 

[phr8dawg]

Do you like hands-on work instead of sitting? Do you like a silent moonlit ramp instead of a crowded terminal? Do you like edging up to a thunderstorm and never considering if its "moderate chop." I HATE pax
flying. Cargo gets the best variety, hardball IFR experience, and the pay isn't bad. But the planes are old, the hours are long, and you don't get a catered
lunch at Signature. Our senior pilots get GOOD jobs down the road. Pick your
poison!

 

[FR8dognit]

If he is a young guy without a family I would say go the FR8 route. Most are hiring and have extremely quick upgrades. We had a guy at Cherry a few years ago that was a CFI before with ~1800 TT that upgraded to Falcon 20 Capt. in 9 months. Took me about 14 months because of our 2000 hour min TT to be a Capt (insurance).

He needs to know that life is very tough at these places though. Long days flying old airplanes through bad wx in the middle of the night.

I will say although it was hard, I would not trade the experience I gained over the four years there. Tell him to talk to some people in person that have done it. It takes a special person to do that job.

 

[Onlyflyfreight]

It's been said before but I'll say it again. Network, Network, Network

If you have your four year and the required time you can get a job most places.

It's a weird industry we are in and some times it seems like it all about timing. Right place at the right time. And being successful also seems to require patience.

But most important (or at least it makes it so much easier) is to network. If you have somebody to walk you in the door it takes a lot of the frustration out of the equation.

Freight vs. Commuters. I can only tell you what's important to me and do not want to get into a pissing contest like so many of these thread turn into.

I chose AirNet, I applied and they chose me. I wanted to go flying on my own, make my own decisions and have some fun. The night part never bothered me much and now I enjoy it. I have no 121 experience, only what I hear from buddies and others, but from what I understand their dispatchers do most (if not all) of their flight planning and the avionics onboard do the rest. I enjoy the fact that I'm responsible for my own flight planning, get my own fuel and I get a kick out of meeting that crossing restriction on my own.

I guess it comes down to life style. What's important to you! What are you willing to put up with in order to be a pilot? Off course I have complaints, but over all I enjoy what I do and I still look forward to go to work every time.

So the best advice I can give is to work on Networking and try to figure out what’s important for him in life and professionally so that he is able to put up with all the jazz this industry sometimes throws at you.

For me, flying is still fun and I have made a commitment to make that a part of my career.

GL,

 

[stupidpilot]

I have a nephew who has amassed some good instructing time and he is now debating whether to apply to Airnet/Ameristar or regional airlines like COEX, CHQ, etc.

He has asked me for advice (probably not a good idea) and some pros and cons of each. I have referred him to this website (probably mistake #2) and I would appreciate any advice from people who have considered these options in the past. He is well aware of the terrible state of the airline industry and the constant threat of either furloughs or declining wages/benefits. He is willing to move anywhere to get the right flight time...

He claims that he ultimately (pie in the sky dream) wants to fly for either a leading LCC or UPS/Fedex.

So, what are the pros/cons of flying for Airnet or Ameristar vs. the regionals? At Airnet, how soon could you get into the Lear as an FO and then move to Captain (3-5 years?)? For those who have chosen between the two options, what were the factors that caused you to make that decision - and do you regret the path you chose?

Thanks for any help.

I would advise against Ameristar. Their aircraft are maintained very poorly. Airnet's aircraft are maintained alot better and is a much more respected outfit.

 

[stupidpilot]

Like an RJ is a heavy! I know of guys that went from Ameristar and Airnet to UPS directly with the falcon and lear jet the biggest things they have flown up to then.

One female went directly to UPS from Ameristar. There are a few that went to Continental or Southwest. But not many. By the way a heavy is 248,000 pounds or more.

 

[belchfire]

He should go to dental school and by a Stinson or something to fly for fun on nice sunny weekends.

If he insists on flying go freight...

 

[falconvalley]

Airnet's scheduled? When were they scheduled? They're certainly not now...although we have the same departure times every night.

 

[osu_av8r]

Airnet's scheduled? When were they scheduled? They're certainly not now...although we have the same departure times every night.

Yeah, I almost commented on that too, but I know what he meant. I'm sure he was referring to the pilots being scheduled, not the routes.

 

[MNR]

I was under the impression that the guys on the Airnet side still are scheduled. I mean I understand that occationally George will have you doing something completely different than your normal route, or something in the middle, but most of the time its the same cities, same times every night right? Plus, and this is a big one I think, your home every morning.

I mean I am sure there are the odd runs that end in different places every other night or that do different routes on different nights but its still fairly structured. Nothing like Jetride where you are on-call and have no idea what you might be doing during your 2 week rotation.

 

[JJET44]

One female went directly to UPS from Ameristar. There are a few that went to Continental or Southwest. But not many.

I know that I'm going to catch flack for this but we're talking about pilots, not quotas!

 

[VSI9k+]

I know that I'm going to catch flack for this but we're talking about pilots, not quotas!

I thought you had to be a homosexual native american to help with quotas.

 

[kamikaize]

Ahhh Stupidpilot!!! when will you learn that nobody cares about your opinion!!! If your opinion mattered you wouldnt of gotten fired and have to beg an old friend for your job at Omni, Just because you couldnt keep your mouth shut...

Anyways to answer the original question. Ameristar/Airnet will both get you to heavy a/c. In the last yr we have had 2 pilots go to continental, 3 Omni, 1 evergreen, 2 polar/atlas, 2 Swa and 2 Jet blue. Ameristar might get you the turbine Pic time faster. Airnet has much nicer equipment and quality of life. Im not sure how the pay scales compare but they are both alot more that the regional guys make.

 

[mikecweb]

I chose Airnet because I met their minimums first. After a few weeks of thinking "Be careful of what you wish for because you might actually get it" I started getting excited about it. Just wrapped up training and now flying "SIC" building time till 1200 hours. Should be about a month and a half.
There are some questions as to how strong Airnet will be business wise in the upcoming years. The CEO talked to us and that was depressing. Some of the others in the company had a little more of a favorable view on things. But then again what flying job is stable these days? At least Airnet has never fourloughed anyone. KNOCK ON WOOD!

 

[pilotyip]

mikecweb, the future of Airnet should not be a big concern for you right now. You will building time at a quality company, with plenty of options. With the coming hiring pool and pilot shortage next year you will be in a good position to look around and look for your next move. I feel you will have plenty of options in the next few years. At Airnet you will get PIC and not learn to program an airplane at a regional.

 

[mikecweb]

I hear ya. And that is a belief that I hold also. Just wish Biggerstaff was as optimistic.

 

[trybysky]

Longer hours?

with all the talk about "working longer hours"...90% of the comments on this thread are from freight pilots. So...who's working all the hours? It might be a long day for a freighter, but most of us have all day off. Out in morning, home at night is my schedule. I love it, wouldn't trade it for a regional schedule.

Although, with the whole day to myself, my net pay has decreased due to the amount of golf i'm getting in. :beer:

 

[stupidpilot]

Ahhh Stupidpilot!!! when will you learn that nobody cares about your opinion!!! If your opinion mattered you wouldnt of gotten fired and have to beg an old friend for your job at Omni, Just because you couldnt keep your mouth shut...


I couldn't keep my mouth shut because I was sick of getting lied to about upgrading and flying dangerous aircraft. All because TW is a greedy a-hole who cares more about his wallet than the safety of his pilots. He should be shut down. By the way, moving to this company was the best thing that ever happened to me. Heavy international time on well maintained aircraft! Looks like your the dummy who keeps putting his life on the line for a company that doesn't care one whit about you! And your career is stagnant. Smarten up and leave before your luck runs out.

 

[Princedietrich]

I hear ya. And that is a belief that I hold also. Just wish Biggerstaff was as optimistic.

99.5% of all Airnet's problems would go away if Bigglesworth would go away.