Airlines...why?

[astroglider]

Why is it so?

The government taxes an airline ticket more than the tax on guns, liquor and cigarettes, the so-called "sin" taxes.

The government forces the airlines to pay for airport security instead of shouldering the burden itself. Isn't an aiport a border? Isn't the government charged with securing and protecting our borders as per the Constitution?

Through bankruptcy the airlines are shedding their pensions and forcing the government and ultimately the taxpayer to pay for the pensions the company should be paying.

Airline labor groups have taken draconian pay cuts of 40%+ to pay for fuel costs the customers should be paying? Other industries have fuel-surcharges, why not the airlines?

Senior airline executives at money-losing carriers have been allowed to award themselves with annual bonuses exceeding one million dollars each at AMR, DAL, UAL and USAir etc etc.

Anyone...anyone?

 

[757jetflier]

And you honestly expect a rational explanation. I hope that your only intent is to provoke discussion. There is no rational explanation for the way the corp/govt entity conducts business. Airlines are just in the media spotlight at the moment. Absolutely anything is justifiable for the almighty dollar.

 

[FN FAL]

All these questions? If you want, I can put you in touch with my hispanic neighbor, he's the manager of a kill floor at the local meat packing plant, he'll hand carry your resume in.

 

[logjammer]

Maybe the airline execs should quit giving away their product below cost and actually charge for it.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Yes, until the legacy carriers realize they are legacy carriers, they won't make any money. LCC's have taken over the domestic market and the legacy's have to realize that their domestic service is a feeder for the international flights. Legacy's starting up LCC's and regionals to compete in the domestic market are not going to work, and are just contributing to our career slide.

 

[El Ocho]

Isn't the real question why don't airlines charge for a ticket what is costs them to operate the flight?

I think the answer is obviously complicated but perhaps fear and greed need to be addressed because airlines greedily fear losing market share, so lower their tickets to what they think is the going rate. Another option might be to realize although some passengers live by the bottom line, not all do, and many are willing to pay more for convenience, be that a direct flight, or a fewer connections, or a better schedule, or better service, or more space, or whatever!

So yeah, act like a legacy carrier! Don't be so greedy and allow some LCC to carry the low cost passengers.

BUT also, as long as airlines are allowed to use their employees as profit source through lower pay and reduced benefits, they will do it! Someone, (government or union) needs to step in and say profit from employee suffering in unacceptable!

AND of course the executive compensation packages need to be regulated as well! No bonuses, or payouts while company is in bankruptcy or in the RED!

 

[Andy Neill]

Why is it so?

The government taxes an airline ticket more than the tax on guns, liquor and cigarettes, the so-called "sin" taxes.

I challenge this assertion. The taxes and fees on a $780 air fare were $20.60. That is less than 3%. I walk into Walmart and buy ANYTHING and I am paying 6.5% sales tax on top of any federal excise taxes on alcohol, guns, or tobacco.

Can't argue with the others.

 

[CptMurf]

I challenge this assertion. The taxes and fees on a $780 air fare were $20.60. That is less than 3%. I walk into Walmart and buy ANYTHING and I am paying 6.5% sales tax on top of any federal excise taxes on alcohol, guns, or tobacco.

Not to debunk your assertation, but the 6.5% sales tax at Walmart is a state sales tax. Not a federal excise tax. Sorry Apples to Oranges.

 

[Andy Neill]

Not to debunk your assertation, but the 6.5% sales tax at Walmart is a state sales tax. Not a federal excise tax. Sorry Apples to Oranges.

I understand that but the poster did not specify federal when the word "government" was used. For instance, the federal tax on beer is $18/31 gallon barrel or a little more than $0.10 a 12 oz can. In order to make that tax less than the 3% airline ticket the feds take, the beer would have to cost in the neighborhood of $3.30/can.

I still challenge the poster's assertion on that point.

 

[logjammer]

I thought the FET was 7.5%, with a $3.20 facility fee per pax/leg?

​

 

[Andy Neill]

I thought the FET was 7.5%, with a $3.20 facility fee per pax/leg?

This is from the SWA website explaining taxes and fees:

"Fares do not include a federal excise tax of $3.30 that will be imposed for each flight segment of your itinerary. A flight segment is defined as a takeoff and a landing. Fares do not include airport-assessed Passenger Facility Charges (PFCs) of up to $18 and government-imposed September 11th Security Fee of up to $10 roundtrip."

 

[QXpeon]

Maybe the airline execs should quit giving away their product below cost and actually charge for it.

Best idea I've heard all decade.

 

[eggman76]

Why is it so?

The government taxes an airline ticket more than the tax on guns, liquor and cigarettes, the so-called "sin" taxes.

Airports, ATC, FAA come to mind. Doesn't cost Uncle Sugar one dime to have Regal Liquors sell a fifth of Jack Danials. I'm guessing that a much higher percentage of "sin" taxes go right to the general fund to pay for other services.

The government forces the airlines to pay for airport security instead of shouldering the burden itself. Isn't an aiport a border? Isn't the government charged with securing and protecting our borders as per the Constitution?

Why should the nonflying public pay for a service that only the flying public uses? These costs should funnel down to the flying public. As far as being a border, have you ever been though customs in a large airport? Why should it be like the border for my flight from Wichita to Des Moines?

Through bankruptcy the airlines are shedding their pensions and forcing the government and ultimately the taxpayer to pay for the pensions the company should be paying.

As a taxpayer, I agree this sucks. Unfortunately this is a symptom of the SJS that you guys on this board talk about so much. There are thousands of "qualified" applicants ready to fly those big jets. There has not been any regulatory or collective barganing scheme that has stopped the airlines from using this pool of "qualified" pilots inexpensively. These same "qualified" pilots do not demand pension benefits for their services, and hence the airlines that were offering these benefits are now at a competitive disadvantage.

Airline labor groups have taken draconian pay cuts of 40%+ to pay for fuel costs the customers should be paying? Other industries have fuel-surcharges, why not the airlines?

IMHO, this is squarely the fault of airline executives. If I sold my product for less than cost I wouldn't be in business very long. If the market conditions force me to sell for less than cost I'm immediately reducing production.

:: Flame suit on::
As a traveler I enjoy flying Southwest when I am unable to fly myself. I really appreciate their pricing structure and the stability of said structure.

I don't think I'm a dullard, but I can not understand the standard airline pricing model. Why the hell does it cost me less to fly from Omaha to Nashville than it does to fly Minneapolis to Nashville? If I fly from Omaha I have to fly to Minneapolis to catch the same damn plane as if I would've driven to Minneapolis. No way this is cheaper for the Airline, who btw is in bankruptcy now.

:: Flame suit off ::

Senior airline executives at money-losing carriers have been allowed to award themselves with annual bonuses exceeding one million dollars each at AMR, DAL, UAL and USAir etc etc.

Why the shareholders of these companies are not filing lawsuits is beyond me. There is a special place somewhere warm waiting for all those executives who participate in fleecing of shareholders, employees, and consumers.

Anyone...anyone?

I'm no one, but I tried.

James Dean

For the record I'm a private pilot who owns a Saratoga for business and pleasure travel. I fly 150 hours per year in the 'toga, and fly an average of two commercial flights a month. I do not fly Delta.