Airliners crash

[jarhead]

Last update: August 24, 2004 at 5:05 PM
2 Russian airliners crash; more than 100 aboard
Associated Press
August 24, 2004 RUSSIA0825
MOSCOW -- Two Russian airliners carrying a total of more than 100 people crashed south of Moscow, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported Tuesday. There was no word on survivors.

The first plane was carrying 54 passengers and a crew of eight when it crashed in the Tula region near the village of Buchalki, the agency said, citing a duty officer at the regional center for civil defense and emergencies. The Tula region is about 110 miles south of Moscow.

The second plane was carrying 44 people when it crashed near Rostov, the agency said, citing an Inter-State Aviation Committee official. Rostov is about 600 miles south of Moscow.

Both planes were Tupolev Tu-154 jets, a medium-range airliner.

 

[EagleRJ]

The Tu-134/154 is a Flying Deathtrap if there ever was one! I wouldn't fly one or fly on one again if it was the only thing available. I speak from experience here.

It's the safety record of that plane that is sinking the Russians' efforts to enter the mainstream civil aircraft market today. Even with Western engines and avionics, buyers are gun shy.

 

[Jump Pilot]

The Clinton News Network is reporting that both aircraft departed the same airport.

Purely speculation, but give me the Chechen rebel on this one.

 

[jarhead]

Fox News with Shephard Smith reported that the U.S. ambassador to Russia has stated that they now are looking into the possibility that terror may have been involved, given that the two planes went down hundreds of miles apart at essentially the same time.

 

[chperplt]

into the possibility that terror may have been involved

Why attack Russia?? Has Russia been the target of terror attacks in the past?

 

[deez_nutz2000]

You've never heard of the conflicts between Russia and Chechnya?
Chechen rebels are dirty, muslim extremists...no better than their Arab counterparts. Didn't you ever hear about the theater that was taken hostage 2 years ago in Moscow?
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/25/moscow.siege/

Wouldn't put it past these dirtbags..

 

[350DRIVER]

Safety record?

This is purely speculation but I highly doubt these two crashes are related to the safety record of this aircraft. Same airport, both off radar within 3 minutes of each other falling out of the sky, come on...



3 5 0

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

my money's on Checnens or some derivative of

-134 went down in two pieces, after a mid-air explosion (AP)

 

[Boeingman]

Uh oh, not good. "Disappeared at the same time". God bless the families.

 

[jarhead]

Why attack Russia?? Has Russia been the target of terror attacks in the past?

Recent terror-related explosions in Russia
Associated Press
August 25, 2004 RUSSIABLASTS0825
MOSCOW -- A list of terror-related explosions in Russia since December 2002:
2004:
- May 9: A bomb rips through a stadium in the Chechen capital, Grozny, during a Victory Day ceremony, killing provincial President Akhmad Kadyrov, the Kremlin's point man for efforts to control separatist violence in the war-wracked region. As many as 24 people are killed. A Chechen warlord claimed responsibility.
- Feb. 6: Explosion rips through a subway car in the Moscow metro during rush hour, killing 41 people. Authorities suspect a terrorist attack.
2003:
-Dec. 9: Female suicide bomber blows herself up outside Moscow's National Hotel, across from the Kremlin and Red Square, killing five bystanders.
- Dec. 5: Suicide bombing on commuter train in southern Russia kills 44 people. President Vladimir Putin condemns attack as bid to destabilize the country two days before parliamentary elections.
- Sept. 16: Two suicide bombers drive a truck laden with explosives into a government security services building near Chechnya, killing three people and injuring 25.
- Aug. 1: Suicide bomber rams truck filled with explosives into a military hospital near Chechnya, killing 50 people, including Russian troops wounded in Chechnya.
- July 10: Russian security agent dies in Moscow while trying to defuse a bomb a woman had tried to carry into a cafe on central Moscow's main street.
- July 5: Double suicide bombing at a Moscow rock concert kills the female attackers and 15 other people.
- June 5: Female suicide attacker detonates bomb near a bus carrying soldiers and civilians to a military airfield in Mozdok, a major staging point for Russian troops in Chechnya, killing at least 16 people.
- May 14: Woman blows up explosives strapped to her waist in crowd of thousands of Muslim pilgrims, killing at least 18 people in an apparent attempt on the life of Chechnya's Moscow-backed chief administrator, Akhmad Kadyrov, now the region's president.
- May 12: Suicide truck-bomb attack kills at least 60 at a government compound in northern Chechnya.
- April 3: Passenger bus hits remote-controlled land mine in the Chechen capital, killing at least 8.
2002:
- Dec. 27: Suicide truck-bomb attack destroys headquarters of Chechnya's Moscow-backed government, killing 72 people.

 

[EagleRJ]

It sure sounds suspicious now. I didn't know both crashes occured simultaneously. Both planes took off from Domodedovo at about the same time, too. Doesn't look good.

At least the Russians are being open to the possibility, unlike authorities in other countries in the past.

 

[208]

i

crash

 

[DenverDude2002]

The TU-154 is a piece of sh!t but even with its track record that seems highly unlikely that 2 would both decide to crash within that short timeframe and from the same airport.

 

[garf12]

Chechnya's preidential elections are sunday, wonder if that could have anything to do with it.

 

[FlyingToIST]

You've never heard of the conflicts between Russia and Chechnya?
Chechen rebels are dirty, muslim extremists...no better than their Arab counterparts. Didn't you ever hear about the theater that was taken hostage 2 years ago in Moscow?
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/25/moscow.siege/

Wouldn't put it past these dirtbags..

Sure.. and the Russians that killed thousands for oil are not? I am not approving of terrorism whatsoever, but I have a problem with your (Muslim = Terrorist) mentality.

 

[apdsm]

but I have a problem with your (Muslim = Terrorist) mentality.

I read nothing of a (Muslim = Terrorist) mentality. I did, however, read of a (Muslim Extremist = Terrorist) mentality. HUGE difference there...

 

[FlyingToIST]

I read nothing of a (Muslim = Terrorist) mentality. I did, however, read of a (Muslim Extremist = Terrorist) mentality. HUGE difference there...

In that case, my apologies for misunderstanding..

 

[100LL... Again!]

Time for a good old Putin a$$-kicking to occur.

I doubt the Russkies with waste any time beginning sever profiling on future flights. Nor will they likely bother themselves with any quaint notions of 'discrimination'.

Campaign slogan for the new millenium:

"It's the Muslims, stupid".

Yes, 'extremists'! **Petulant sigh**

PC could kill us yet.

 

[deez_nutz2000]

Mr. James Hetfield said it best...........

KILL 'EM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Cowards

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Nor will they likely bother themselves with any quaint notions of 'discrimination'

I was in Moscow during the fall of 2002, and you could see a lot of cops on sidewalks and in subways stopping anyone who even remotely looked like they were from the Middle East and checked their ID's, questioned and searched some right on the spot.



So, no. I don't think profiling would be an issue with Russians.

 

[jarhead]

Latest update

Last update: August 25, 2004 at 10:13 AM
Russians don't rule out terrorism in crashes
Mike Eckel, Associated Press
August 25, 2004 RUSS0826 BUCHALKI, Russia –

Russian emergency workers searched heaps of twisted metal and tall grass Wednesday for clues about what caused two airliners to plunge to earth within minutes of each other, killing all 89 people aboard. Officials said one jet sent a hijack distress signal, raising fears terrorists had struck.
Flight recorders from both planes were found and taken to Moscow for investigation, ITAR-Tass reported, indicating the question of what caused the twin disasters soon could be answered.
Russian security authorities said that explosives specialists were still working at the scene of the crashes. They reported that terrorism remained a possible cause, although there was no evidence so far that terrorists were behind the tragedies.
Federal Security Service spokesman Sergei Ignatchenko said investigators were still questioning airport officials and airline and security employees at Domodedovo Airport, from which both flights left 45 minutes apart.
The airport on Moscow's far south side operates a single terminal that serves both international and domestic flights. Both flights were serviced at and left from the domestic section.
The service, known as the FSB, is a successor agency to the KGB. Officials there said they were investigating other possibilities such as technical failures, the use of poor quality fuel, breaches of fueling regulations and pilot error. Rain and thunder was reported in the regions where both crashes occurred.
Rebels fighting a protracted war for independence for Chechnya, the troubled southern Russian province, have been blamed for a series of terror strikes that have claimed hundreds of lives in Russia in recent years. But rebel representative Akhmed Zakayev told Russia's Ekho Moskvy radio from London that Chechen forces and rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov were not connected to the crashes.
Russian officials had expressed concern that separatists in the war-ravaged republic might carry out attacks ahead of a regional election Sunday to replace its pro-Moscow president who was killed in a May bombing.
A Sibir airlines Tu-154 jet, carrying 46 people, took off from Moscow's newly redeveloped Domodedovo airport at 9:35 p.m. Tuesday and the other plane, a Tu-134 carrying 43 people, left 40 minutes later, according to state-run Rossiya television. The Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd, while the other plane was flying to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where President Vladimir Putin is vacationing.
Putin returned to Moscow Wednesday night, despite being scheduled to play host to the leaders of France and Germany in Sochi early next week.
The planes disappeared from radar screens about 11:00 p.m., and by early Wednesday morning, the wreckage of both had been found - with no survivors. Domodedovo airport said in a statement that both planes ``went through the standard procedure of preparation for flight ... (and) the procedures were carried out properly.''
Uncertainty over the cause of the crashes came after Sibir said that it was notified that its jet had activated a hijack or seizure signal shortly before disappearing from radar screens. Officials said the crew of the other plane gave no indication that anything was wrong, but witnesses on the ground reported hearing a series of explosions.
``There were three loud bangs on the window, like someone knocking,'' said Nikolai Gorokhov, a local resident who was in his home at the time of the crash.
Putin ordered an investigation by the FSB, and security was tightened at Russian airports, where extra security officers and sniffer dogs were called in to check passengers and luggage, as well as other transport hubs and public places. The FSB sent experts to determine if explosions caused the crashes, Interfax reported.
At about the same time the Tu-154 disappeared, the Tu-134 airliner crashed in the Tula region, about 125 miles south of Moscow, officials said. ITAR-Tass reported that the authorities believe the Tu-134 fell from an altitude of 32,800 feet. Wreckage of the Sochi-bound Tu-154 was found in the Rostov region, about 600 miles south of Moscow about nine hours after it disappeared.
Rescuers quickly found the Tu-134's wreckage - a heap of metal lying upside down in a large hay field, its tail severed from the fuselage. An AP reporter saw one body bag lying near the tail, holding a charred corpse. Emergency Ministry officers wearing camouflage and red berets stood shoulder-to-shoulder and combed the tall grass for pieces of the broken plane.
Maj. Gen. Gennady Skachkov of the Emergency Situations Ministry told AP at the scene near the village of Buchalki that most of the bodies were still in the cabin, but several had been thrown into the field. He refused to speculate on the cause of the crash but said the crew had given no warning.
Officials made conflicting statements about whether the signal from the other jet indicated a hijacking or another severe problem on the aircraft.
The Interfax and ITAR-Tass news agencies later quoted an unnamed law enforcement source as saying that the signal was an SOS and that no other signals were sent.
Oleg Yermolov, deputy director of the Interstate Aviation Committee, said that it is impossible to judge what is behind the signal, which merely indicates ``a dangerous situation onboard'' and can be triggered by the crew during a hijacking or a potentially catastrophic technical problem.
Sibir airlines, however, seemed to hint at foul play, saying on its Web site that it ``does not rule out the theory of a terrorist attack.''
The Emergency Situation Ministry's Rostov regional chief Viktor Shkareda told AP the plane apparently broke up in the air and that wreckage was spread over an area of some 25-30 miles, but the fuselage and tail lay a few hundred yards apart at the edge of a forest. Bodies lay near the plane, but most of the victims' bodies were trapped in the mangled fuselage. The crash was found near Gluboky, a village north of the regional capital Rostov-on-Don.
Siber said the Tu-134 belonged to small regional airline Volga-Aviaexpress and was being piloted by the company's director.
Interfax quoted a Domodedovo airport spokesman as saying no foreigners were on the passenger lists for either plane. But a spokesman for the Israeli embassy said an Israeli citizen, David Coen, was on the Volgograd-bound jet.