Airlinepay.com

[buzzer]

"For example - a second year Captain does get paid $113/hr to 70 hrs, but it is $169.50/hr above 70."

I guess that will suck everyone into flying more hours each month...gets productivity up for the company. If you get used to flying 85hrs each month, how can you afford to only fly 70?

 

[jetblue320]

A320drivr…
your pay does sux. Just like the dude flippin’ burgers at McDonalds. The difference is by the time you gain the experience to land a job with a major you have already spent a good deal of your life flying for peanuts and working terrible schedules… probably 10 to 15 years or more just to be qualified! The guy flippin’ the burgers walks in off the street. He can also make his LOW pay look good… Let’s see… If he worked for $6.00 an hour, 24 hours a day, 30 days a month… That’s $51840.00 a year! Not bad for working the grease grill at McDonalds! It doesn’t change the fact that he still has a low paying job. And what about the guy willing to come in and do the same thing for $5.00 an hour! You can fly all month and make up the low pay but how does that affect your family and quality of life? I got in this business to do something I love doing.. fly... get paid as much as I can and still have a decent quality of life, i.e. time off. I didn’t get into this business to be a flying whore for some company, even if they do serve the best blue Kool-Aid around! Just my humble opinion.

Nothing humble at all about you. And, what airline do you fly for? Just curious so maybe I can aspire to be just like you!

 

[ArchieF16]

But this is just my opinion, what do I know.

You could have just left your psycho-babble BS at this and saved the rest of us some time. Reading your post I now realize I have 2 minutes of my life I'll never get back.......

 

[Minor league]

I think Mesa hires ex- Air Force.

 

[sandman2122]

envious?

Hey "Minor League"

Just my observation, but boy, aren't you a bit pissed off at the world - or Air Force? It sounds like you were turned down by the Air Force and got "stuck" flying helo-choppers, sounds like you've got "fighter envy".

Lighten up Minor League.

 

[AlbieF15]

I love my man Jethro, but I respectfully disagree on a a few points.

I did not get into this work without considering the long term compensation deal. However, there are several ways you can do the math.

Conventional way is salary+benefits+retirement= compensation. Lots of pros to this system...steady work, good secure pension (a/b funds, etc). Cons are you don't get retirement until 60 or so, and if company tanks (ala United/US Air) those golden parachute pensions, if not worthless, certainly can take a huge hit.

SWA model is pay+profit sharing+401k (only) +stock options=compensation.
On paper looks pretty pale compared to majors when things are going well. However, there are quite a few "stock millionares" at SWA, and while they get no huge A plan, they can also QUIT early and spend those stock options/401k dollars as they see fit. You can slam a guy for working too much or too little as you see fit, but I would think we would all agree 30-31 days off a month is a pretty darn good schedule for those guys who can retire a bit early.

JB model is very similar to SWA. However, your 6000 initial shares in your stock option are fully vested at 7 years. There could very likely be some 35-45 year old guys who could walk away from Jetblue and go try something else if they so wanted. Can't very well leave UAL, FDX, or most majors at 7 years with anything but a handshake.

There are pros and cons to any of these models, but none of them work work a darn if your company goes broke. At least with the SWA and JB models, the employees have a vested interest, both long and short term, in seeing their company succeed. Not slamming any particular major, but the constant mgt-labor battles often trap the consumer in the middle of a nasty fight, and more often then not he'll vote with his feet. Remember the UAL slowdown of 99-00?

Another point to ponder--nobody pays worth a tinker's d@mn on furlough. It takes only 1-2 years of furlough to more than offest the higher wages, as money NOW has much more value than money LATER. Chosing to go for growth or security (SWA, JB, or FDX) vice top dollar (pre 9/11 UAL, DAL) can sometimes pay off. Again...you never know what the optimum model is until you retire and look back with perfect hindsight.

As for kevetching a dude for working over 70 hours...YGTBSM! I've been on the panel going into year 3 at FDX, largely because so many guys in our own fleet gladly suck up extra trips a 1.5 pay. Do I fault them? No...working hard for money is part of the American ethic, and its legal in our contract, and doing that keeps our company "lean" and makes us not only more efficient, but it may help prevent furloughs during downturns. However, nobody at a company where folks are working extra (like FDX) or picking up green slips (Delta) should be slamming a guy for working for 85 hours a month. I have no idea what their trip rig/duty rigs are, but KC10s days off sound about like what our guys at FDX actually fly. For what its worth, rolling in at 0900 after an a.m. out and back may sound like I have the rest of the "day off", but anyone who's flown a few of those also knows you are about a worthless zombie for 18-24 hours after working back side of the clock for a few days.

And while I'm not complaining about my current situation (if fact I feel VERY blessed), my W-2 from FDX, my W-2 from the Air National Guard, and my sideline of interview prep still do not add up to what a JetBlue Captain (which I would have been for 2 years now) makes. And while there are no guarantees, I think those guys at JB will be around to make that money for some time. Those who don't spend it all now and invest 10-30% of that and keep their professional qualifications sharp will also be just fine IF it doesn't work out, and in the meantime they are making good money while those guys stuck at the bottom of a list at majors or furloughed somewhere WAIT for their big checks.

In closing...what do your folks who think JB is "damaging the profession" want them to do? Should that furloughed UAL or DAL guy (I've helped a bunch of them) NOT go give jetBlue a try? Should he work as a stockbroker, car salesman, or another profession until a better job shows up? Do you think 150-170k flying a small narrowbody as a captain is too low at a company less than 5 years old? Everyone has an opinion, but what you YOU recommend to an out of work pilot right now?

Just my 2 cents...with the standard disclaimers....

PS--Minor League...its not your helicopter or other experience that has held you back professionally. I promise....

 

[Minor league]

Perhaps......But it IS your Air Force background that got you into FEDEX.

Nothing more, nothing less. You just fit the "profile".

Don't kid yourself.

 

[AlbieF15]

Actually, 4 folks I helped either get hired or into the pool at FDX have never been military.

It may seem like its "all military" outside looking in, but from my seat I see a whole lot of Pinnacle and corporate types too. I don't think any one group has a true monopoly on getting hired....except maybe Navy P-3 pilots . You can't swing a dead cat around FDX without smashing a few of those guys...

By the way...I don't wear an ascot. I do, however, have a desert brown scarf I used as a dust filter over my face when I rolled with an army tank battallion into Iraq back in 1991. If you hovered six feet in your chopper over Iraq or Kuwait between 1990-1991, you have more flying combat time that I got during the entire first Gulf War. Don't think for a minute all those "pretty boys" you seem to hate haven't had a bad deal or two along the way. I'm not the only F-15 driver who ever had to load an M-1 120mm cannon or get checked out on the .50 cal on the M113. In your self-righteous approach to disimissing a whole pool of professional aviators, you may have missed the fact many of them have more in common with you than you realize. You also might find a helping hand here or there if you weren't always snapping at it....

 

[potrack]

JBlue flying 950 hours?

A few posts back, the guy who was saying "I blocked 950 hours last year"......

I thought a successful airline job was the one where you got paid well, lots of time off and did not have to block 950 hours in a year.

looks like airlinepilotpay.com rates have some of the bankrupt carriers (UAL, HAW) paying more than JetBlue? Is that right??

 

[Skater]

Foreign carrier pay

Anybody else interested on what foreign pilots make? I would like to see some of the payrates from european and asian carriers. When cabotage happens, at least we will have an idea of how sh#!!y our pay will be.

 

[IB6 UB9]

"I thought a successful airline job was the one where you got paid well, lots of time off and did not have to block 950 hours in a year."

I would say a successful airline job these days is one where you get paid for flying airplanes, keep your job until you are ready to retire, and help your company stay in business instead of striving to send it to bankruptcy. You idiot.

 

[t38dude]

AlbieF15,

Well said as usual.

T38dude

 

[Minor league]

My previous comments about Air Force pilots were obviously unprofessional and silly. Just a little venting. Let me say that I don't hate Air Force types. On the contrary, I have many friends that are Air Force.

My frustration actually lies in the bias that exists in the hiring "system".

Don't take my word for it, just look at a few of the online applications. An obvious bias exsists that makes exceptions for the shortcomings of the single engine jet fighter types. This same bias does not accept any helicopter time. (Jet Blue, South West) And disreguards multi-engine turbine time from B1900 pilots. (MGTOW of Greater than 20000 lbs.)

Bias pain and simple. Don't deny it.

So what gives? Can you blame me for being frustrated by a hiring "system" at the "majors" that takes pains to make way for your transition and punishes the rest of us?????? It is indeed the good ole boy system at it's worst.

 

[Minor league]

"Les"

There is a bias at the "majors" because the hiring department is full of, and influenced by this age old ex- Air Force or call it what you will system.

I call it the good ole boy system.

Yes "Les"...... flying fighters VFR and dropping bombs and doing attack runs completely justifies your going to the show.

Why did'nt I see that?

Thank you for your wisdom.

Just like the book "Animal Farm" We are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

Just calling it like I see it.

 

[spanky2]

Hey Little League,
Look in the mirror and say to yourself...the world needs ditch diggers, too. You speak with ignorance about single seat fighter pilots. You should write your posts with green font, as in envy.

 

[Minor league]

Missing the point.

Your egos won't let you accept the truth.

What's all this talk about envy, bitterness, hatefullness?

Just jerkin some chains.

Good luck to all of you. You can't and won't see the fact that you are "cutting in line". For every "walk on" that does'nt pay any civilian dues, is a another pilot stuck in the minor league who continues to have to wait to go to the show.

But pilots eat their own.

What did we always say in the military? Oh yeah....."I got mine"

 

[LEROY]

I'm sorry Albie, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. There is NO WAY a dead cat could smash a Navy P-3 pilot. And I'm pretty sure all us skypig drivers might get a little offended at getting bludgeoned by a piece of road kill. Not to mention the possibly nasty disposition of said cat himself.

 

[PurpleTail]

Minor-

I like your sense of humor and your touch of vinegir in your posts, some people do need to lighten up a little

There are some truths to what you say but everyone knows, in this indusrty, you need a little luck and a lot of good timing...oh yea and some personality to get hired a "major". Thats it. First-Be qualified...Second-Be at the right place at the right time.

I am sure you have some great qualifications and if this was year 1999 or 2000 United would have you in class right now. But times have changed and not just for the civilians (me) either, the military types too.

 

[AlbieF15]

Hmmm..

I only had a degree in aviation management, not aerospace engineering, so I may need some mutual support from engineer types....

However, Momentum = Mass x Velocity(squared), I think there might actually be a point where I COULD effectively smash a P-3 pilot effectively with a dead cat. This would not only add some levity to a late night in the AOC, it would have positive ramifications on my stagnating seniority.

Therefore...for you high math types...provided I DO locate a dead cat, with a weight of 8 pounds, what speed to I need to acheive to in effect, "smash" a 180 pound 6' hypothetical former P-3 pilot (preferalbly one who relishes sliding his seat back prohibiting me from opening my "desk of shame" while at the same time requesting coffee right as I filling out the TOLD card, inspecting HAZ paperwork, and calling GOC for a change to the FPR).

Realizing that I am 6'2" with slightly above average arm length, can you calculate the required radial velocity to swing the dead cat to acheive the desired impact results on said target?

I'd do that math, but instead of taking higher physics I was teaching touch and gos at the local AUO aiport or off at the War Eagle Supper Club or Ryan's trying to locate a girl foolish enough to waste her time with me, or pehaps getting counseld (again) by the AFROTC staff on professionalism, taking the program seriously, blah blah blah. So I need some help here...

I do know, however, that the five of six pointy ends of a cat are not a hazard if said cat is DEAD. Honestly, Leroy...how can you miss the obvious? So...if you want a bonus problem, somebody calculate the same equation with a LIVE cat, and include the additional damaging effects of snarling teeth and slashing claws. I will also need some tips on maximizing damage to the target of said aggession while preventing any injuries to my own person during the attack from the certainly aggravated feline.

Your help is appreciated.

 

[tkr-toad]

REALITY

Minor -
Face it, judgements and values are a human trait and whether empirically arrived at or not, they influence the decisions of individuals/companies/nations all the time. I'll try not to stretch the analogy too thin, but I'm sure you prefer a spouse/lover with one hair color over another or body type or religion or whatever it is that you value in your selection process. Some of it may be rational and some may be not. But tell me, what would you say to the stick-thin blonde atheist (no knocking of course) who you would rather not date, no matter how funny/intelligent/wealthy they are, when that person whines that it's "not fair" that the Presbyterian redheads always are first in line with you. Life's "not fair" in that case as well as the job market. I can work my be-hind off and be Magna Cum Laude at Texas Tech but I'm naive if I think that the Harvard grad won't get special consideration ahead of me just for going there. Does it make sense? Maybe/maybe not but things associated with you rightly or wrongly say a little bit about you. You hear all of the time that the military pilot is a "known quantity" due to the quality of training and experience. Does that mean any given AF pilot is more desirable to a company than any given corporate pilot? Maybe to certain companies and not to others. Accept that fact of life and make the best of the position you're in and you will be rewarded with whatever the "system" presents to you in the future. Heck, I was at a desk ("banked") for three years in the AF but I don't cry over the fact that had the Cold War not ended, I would have another 1500 hours by now. I just accept my qualifications and work to improve them, not look for others to blame because I'm deficient in some area (whether it be my fault or not). I suggest you do the same.