Airline mins

[Flybet3]

Hey guys, just curious what the flight time mins were at the majors pre-911.
So if you got hired at
DELTA
AMERICAN
U.S AIRWAYS
UNITED
ALASKA
ETC.......
what were the min?

 

[RIOtoPilot]

airlinepilotcentral.com

 

[samballs]

airlinepilotcentral.com

All those planes to your name, you think you would have learned to read. He said pre 911.

 

[Flybet3]

airlinepilotcentral.com

ummmm, have you actually looked at the website? Secondly I am asking about mins before 9/11.

 

[Flybet3]

All those planes to your name, you think you would have learned to read. He said pre 911.

YES! THANK YOU!

 

[waveflyer]

American was 3500TT and 500 pic turbine and a 4year degree.

 

[RIOtoPilot]

All those planes to your name, you think you would have learned to read. He said pre 911.

I apologize for trying to help. Nice grammar by the proofread nazi.

 

[dojetdriver]

UAL's had to be "upped" from 350 fixed wing PIC to what was basically ATP mins.

I think DAL was either 1200, or 1500 total. 1000 turbine.

 

[Flybet3]

UAL's had to be "upped" from 350 fixed wing PIC to what was basically ATP mins.

WOW! Really? Those are some looow mins. I wonder why southwest has always been 1000 PIC turb. Does anyone know americans (pre 9/11)

 

[SuperKooter]

UAL's had to be "upped" from 350 fixed wing PIC to what was basically ATP mins.

Or just a pair of breasts

 

[Jetjockey]

Or just a pair of breasts

Some men meet that requirement.

 

[pkober]

I was hired at TWA in 1996 with about 3000 + hours. Mix civilian and military. I was hired at CAL in 2005 with 8000 + hours. If you are straight military your time would probably be lower when hired as opposed to straight civilian. Military guys fly less per month than civilian.

I did see women get hired at UAL in the 90's with 500 hours. They worked hard and deserved it though.

 

[huncowboy]

Good thread.

Is turbine PIC going to be an important factor when calling people for interviews or will it be total turbine, part 121 or what? Most airlines don't seem to have the turbine PIC requirement. Are they going to change that now that they could with all the regional guys loaded with left seat time?

I have heard regional people getting hired from the right seat to Continental, Spirit, JB without knowing people and with no turbine PIC. How about the rest of the airlines?

 

[pianoman]

If it's CAL then that's the exception rather than the norm. The few people I know who went right seat to right seat definitely knew someone. Most people in our class either had mil time which was a little lower or else around 4-7k hours with a good dose of turbine PIC.

A lot of folks won't tell you right away they knew someone, but after talking to them for a while you figure it out.

Not judging, just facts.

 

[AA717driver]

They will start out with higher mins. then, as the pool dries up, they'll take lower and lower experienced people.

It's amazing how choosy the HR people can be when there's a glut of pilot applicants. TC

 

[Flybet3]

Does anyone remember American Airlines flight time mins?

 

[skengdon]

American was 3500TT and 500 pic turbine and a 4year degree.

I think he said it.

 

[Flybet3]

I think he said it.

My bad bro, I didnt see it.

 

[ERJpusher]

Northwest was 1500 TT, 1000 tpic pre-911. However, competitive mins were more like 5000 TT, 2000 TPIC. Posted minimums don't always mean you are qualified.

 

[Flybet3]

Anyone have the numbers for US Airways?

 

[Flybet3]

Didnt american at one point hire according to experience.

 

[dojetdriver]

Northwest was 1500 TT, 1000 tpic pre-911. However, competitive mins were more like 5000 TT, 2000 TPIC. Posted minimums don't always mean you are qualified.

Depends on your perspective. If the mins say 1000 Turbine PIC and you have that, then you are qualified.

Being qualified doesn't automatically make you "competitive".

 

[Scrapdog]

Depends on your perspective. If the mins say 1000 Turbine PIC and you have that, then you are qualified.

Being qualified doesn't automatically make you "competitive".

Being "competitive" depends totally on what that 1000 TPIC is in. 1000 TPIC can be extremely competitive if it's a particular aircraft type/field.

 

[instructordude]

Or just a pair of breasts

Or a fighter pilot. Even better if you have breasts and a fighter pilot.

 

[HA25]

Or a fighter pilot. Even better if you have breasts and a fighter pilot.

First post you've made in months that actually made any sense.

1000TT for a mil (when you consider they don't log taxi time) and in many cases it's in a C-17 or F18 is more "experience" than 1000 in a C182 or E120.. Add woman to that, and you're in like flinn.


btw, its worth mention that some companies like UPS are now require "Transport category" and "international experience" which makes fighter time less important to them. The fighters do international, but generally are not flying alone across the pond but rather with a refueling aircraft which is doing the radio's and navigation (for all intents and purposes).

 

[dojetdriver]

Being "competitive" depends totally on what that 1000 TPIC is in. 1000 TPIC can be extremely competitive if it's a particular aircraft type/field.

I never argued that point, all I said is there is a difference between being termed qualified and being termed competitive.

We can beat this freaking horse to death because we all know it hasn't been done here before. We talk about mil vs. civ, fighter vs. heavy, regional vs. on demand freight. Whatever. Bottom line, it still comes down to who you know.

For those of us that were in the airline world pre 9/11, it's not ALL that much different than now. Of course, there ARE differences, but for the most part, it's the same. The airlines were hiring A LOT more, but there was also A LOT of pilots out there wanting jobs. You STILL have to know people. Maybe UPS being a slight execption. But that's still no cakewalk.

I can't tell you how many guys I flew with in 2000/2001 that had their crap in with everybody, had their online stuff done, updated religously, went to the job fairs, were LCA's and couldn't get a call. Then someone comes in, spends 6 months in the right seat of an RJ, and off to UAL/AA/USAir, kinda like now. Or, comes out of the military, can't get called because he's not the only one seperating that doesn't know enough people, gets a few months 121 at a regional, than off he goes.

 

[HA25]

dojet, like it or not (and like you, I don't particularly like it).. mil guys, especially fighter guys will always have an edge.. it's not unfair in that to get those slots (as most of the mil slots are not on fighters) they have to rank at the top of their class, and that tells recruiters a thing or two about them.

Reality also is that the military, like the airlines has hiring booms and busts.. Some of us (myself included) tried to fly military in a time of drawdowns (I tried in 1988) and you had to be a 4.0 student, with perfect everything to get a rotor slot.. I had my recruiter (a lieutenant) tell me that I was accepted to the USMC PLC program, only to be riffed by the medical board due to the fact that I was born with a heart murmur that was already healed mind you. If I were trying to do the same in 2001, I'm sure it would have gone another way.

A good example is DAL.. 1500TT, and no MEL needed.. who do you think that minimum applies to? not us, that's for sure.

 

[dojetdriver]

dojet, like it or not (and like you, I don't particularly like it).. mil guys, especially fighter guys will always have an edge.. it's not unfair in that to get those slots (as most of the mil slots are not on fighters) they have to rank at the top of their class, and that tells recruiters a thing or two about them.

Reality also is that the military, like the airlines has hiring booms and busts.. Some of us (myself included) tried to fly military in a time of drawdowns (I tried in 1988) and you had to be a 4.0 student, with perfect everything to get a rotor slot.. I had my recruiter (a lieutenant) tell me that I was accepted to the USMC PLC program, only to be riffed by the medical board due to the fact that I was born with a heart murmur that was already healed mind you. If I were trying to do the same in 2001, I'm sure it would have gone another way.

A good example is DAL.. 1500TT, and no MEL needed.. who do you think that minimum applies to? not us, that's for sure.

I never argued what was fair or not, I never argued your point either, just said there was a difference between qualified and competitve. Good grief, I'm getting tired of repeating myself and sounding like a broken record. I know more than ONE person who was hired at FedEx (just as an example) that had less than 2000 turbine PIC. Were they qualified? Sure, the companies stated minimums say so. Were they competitive? I have to venture to say not as much as some other people. Just means they had the sponsor, the three rec's, were able to get the meet n' greet scheduled, did the Emerald Coast phone meet n' greet prep, was able to go to the meet n' greet, successfully passed the meet n' greet, got the call for interview, went to Emerald Coast and did the interview prep, did well in the interview, didn't crash the sim, and got called for a class date. Doesn't mean I agree with it, doesn't mean it's crap. I'm just stating the REALITY of airline hiring practices and how there can be a big difference between what is "qualified" and what is "competitive". Regardless of if it's pre 9/11 or post 9/11.

And yes, I remember the DAL minimum being slanted towards a mil/fighter type. I also remember two of my civilian only friends being in the LAST class DAL hired in the late sroing of 2001.

And I also remember the UAL scantron where PIC times could be entered seperately by the type of time. Turbine PIC, 121 Scheduled turbibe PIC, Military multi crew PIC, single seat PIC, ect.

 

[HA25]

I feel your frustration man... sorry if I added to it.

It all goes back to this BS pilot shortage thing.. there is no shortage when "mins" are a moving target that is held by how many friends you have on the inside. I've seen it first hand.

The only thing I know is that I keep my ticket & record clean, and I keep taking jobs that make me a better pilot and add to my experience and resume.

 

[dojetdriver]

I feel your frustration man... sorry if I added to it.

It all goes back to this BS pilot shortage thing.. there is no shortage when "mins" are a moving target that is held by how many friends you have on the inside. I've seen it first hand.

The only thing I know is that I keep my ticket & record clean, and I keep taking jobs that make me a better pilot and add to my experience and resume.

That's about all you can do. And try not to pi$$ anybody off in the process. You never know who you run into that might be willing to help you out down the road, as you well know. And if I ever hear the term "pilot shortage" again out of some ignorant media outlet, Im gonna scream. God, I remember in 2000 reading about the "pilot shortage". Only at that time, it wasn't that there wasn't enough qualified pilots (just like now), it was that they couldn't hire/train them fast enough. UAL had what, 10,000 apps on file? Assuming only HALF of them actaully had the mins, and maybe most of that half was what was considered "qualified" (at that time), that's still a lot of people to call. And they were not the only carrier. Granted, UAL's 10k pile was the same as DAL's 10k pile was the same as AA's 10k pile.