Aircraft speed

[lucky2Bflyin]

I am sure this has been posted before but two questions:

1.) It is legal to exceed 250 KIAS while still in Denver's class B so long as you are above 10,000 MSL according to 91.117 correct?

2.) Which regulation covers aircraft speed above 10,000 ft MSL? I have heard Mach 1 is the limit but I do not know where this came from?

Thanks

 

[FlynSuperD]

1. yes, 91.117 does not mention and speed limits for class B other than if you are below class B or in a corridor. 91.117 b states that for Class B, refer to 91.117 a, which says only not to go faster than 250 below 10000MSL

2. 91.817, 91.819, 91.821 deal with flying in excess of Mach1

 

[lucky2Bflyin]

Ok thanks for the information. The way I understand 91.117 is that there is really no speed restriction in B except for when in class B under 10,000 ft MSL then you must not exceed 250 KIAS correct? Reason I want to clarify this is because it is a common interview question.

Thank you all for your input

 

[mainah]

...or minimum safety speed, you could theoretically fly a plane that goes faster and be legal to fly faster than 250 KIAS.

 

[350DRIVER]

The way I understand 91.117 is that there is really no speed restriction in B except for when in class B under 10,000 ft MSL then you must not exceed 250 KIAS correct? Reason I want to clarify this is because it is a common interview question.

Unless as stated in the above by mainah which in that case you could exceed 250 below 10,000 in class B and still be legal. You can also exceed it when ATC approves it, due to different reasons.

3 5 0

 

[satpak77]

Administrator

from Far 1.1

Administrator means the Federal Aviation Administrator or any person to whom he has delegated his authority in the matter concerned

it is my feeling that ATC qualifies under this

 

[cheater1239]

there is no atc exception to 250 below 10,000
the administrator is not the same as atc when applied to 91.117
an aopa news letter from last year was incorrect when discussing this very topic.



some cut and paste from doc's far forum....


FAR 91.117(c) is the rule that imposes the 200 KIAS limit below CLass B airspace:
"(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph)."

No ATC deviation authority is granted under this rule. Therefore, the speed limit of 200 KIAS below Class B airspace can only be exceeded:

1. By the PIC for operational reasons under the authority granted in FAR 91.117(d) in order to maintain a minimum safe speed, OR

2. Under a waiver issued by the Administrator through the waiver process, OR,

3. Under an exemption.

the houston notam........

Pursuant to a Special Delegation of Authority to grant waivers to Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 91, The FAA Southwest Region Air Traffic Division Manager has waived CFR 91.117A, (250 Knot Speed Limit) for departing Aircraft in the Houston, Texas, approach control airspace for the purpose of testing the effect of increased departure speeds on the Air Traffic Control Environment.

Notice, Aircraft Departing from airports in Houston approach control airspace may be authorized to exceed the 250 KNOT speed restriction contained within CFR 91.117A, at the discretion of Air Traffic Control (ATC).

Houston ATC will be permitted to assign/authorize speed in excess of 250 KNOTS to departing aircraft using phraseology "NO SPEED LIMIT" or "INCREASE SPEED TO (NUMBER) KNOTS." This test is for departure traffic only and may be terminated at any time by ATC.

 

[Iceman21]

Does Doc work for the FAA?

 

[bigsky]

I once was given some bad information from my POI - Who was the FAA. He admitted he was wrong but bottom line said it was just his opinion and unless it is from the FAA legal department in writing dont count on it.
I would tend to apply that to this situation- ATC can do what they want but that may or may not be enough to protect you. Unless it was a notam, waiver or somethin to that affect it is very questionable.

 

[Vector4fun]

ATC is not authorised to waive the 250 kt speed restriction below 100 except in the case of the IAH program, which is a special waiver. ATC can waive certain other speed restictions. I used to do it when operationally advantageous, years ago, untill we got a formal briefing item back around 1988 or so that said we couldn't.

Having said that, there are a few operators, the military is a BIG one, who are authorised to deviate from the rule for operational reasons. Also, a few Heavy aircraft require faster speeds under certain conditions.

 

[Russ]

Read the language of 91.117. It says the waivering authority for 200Kts in C&D is ATC. It says the waivering authority for the 250/10K is the administrator.

 

[JumboCat3]

A few years back, I was coming out of MDW in a Lear25.
When we went to the depature Freq. we were told to accelerate
to max forward airspeed.
The Captain jammed the thrust levers up and we were on our way to 307 knots.
I told ole Cappy that he could only do 250k and only 250k.
I felt the controllr just wanted us to hurry up to 250 knots.

That broke out into friendly arguments.

I never got a good answer from anyone if I was right or not.
I think a controller has to actually waive your airspeed in order
to exceed a legal speed in any airspace below 10,000.

This is a fun question..........

 

[cubpilot]

ATC Speed changes

The AIM specifically addresses this. ATC is not allowed to clear you to break a regulation including speed restrictions. The PIC is expected to refuse the clearance and advise ATC it is because of the regulation.

AIM 4-4-11. Speed Adjustments

NOTE-In such cases, pilots are expected to advise ATC of the speed that will be used.

h. Pilots are reminded that they are responsible for rejecting the application of speed adjustment by ATC if, in their opinion, it will cause them to exceed the maximum indicated airspeed prescribed by 14 CFR Section 91.117(a), (c) and (d). IN SUCH CASES, THE PILOT IS EXPECTED TO SO INFORM ATC. Pilots operating at or above 10,000 feet MSL who are issued speed adjustments which exceed 250 knots IAS and are subsequently cleared below 10,000 feet MSL are expected to comply with 14 CFR Section 91.117(a).