Aircraft recommendation

panama_gringo

Future Owner in Training
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Posts
17
Hello,

The brain trust on this forum is the reason for posting here. Read many posts and met a few of the members.

Need some input regarding good aircraft to purchase for the following missions based out of Albrook in Panama City, Panama -- MPMG (MARCOS GELABERT, PA). Runway is 5906 x 98 feet. Elevation (ft) 00031:

Panama City to:

Country Venezuela
ICAO SVVA
IATA VLN
City Valencia
Elevation (ft) 01411

691.6 NM


Country United States
ICAO KFXE
IATA FXE
U.S. State FLORIDA
Elevation (ft) 00013
1034.1 NM

Longest distance flown to the far side of the Caribbean would about 1250 nm.

Pax for the Venezuela mission would be between 6 to 8. Lots of expats in Panama going back home to visit relatives but a lot of businessmen too. Baggage not as critical.

The other missions are tourism related -- i.e. golf weekends from Panama to the best courses in the Caribbean. Probably 4 to 6 guys with their golf bags and luggage.

Two things the market is telling us -- Machismo is alive and well so ramp appeal and speed will sell.

Aircraft would be operated on a Panamanian 135 equiv. certificate by the best operator in country. Could be November registered and operated under an agreement with the owner.

The market for this is quite strong. My wife manges the operator so we have the inside information on the demand. With no marketing whatsoever for a business jet, she gets 15 to 20 hours per month worth of flight inquiries. There are no commercially registered business jets down here at the moment.

Budget up to 2.5 million. Hourly charter rate at about $2500 would be about right. Low side $2000.

Jet A down here is about $4.30 a gallon at the moment.

I have my own thoughts about aircraft but will refrain from influencing discussion.

Thanks for your consideration.

Regards,

Hunter
aircharterpanama.com
Our marketing site for charter clients coming to Panama.
 

HawkerF/O

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Posts
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Straight Falcon 50. HAwker won't work because of the baggage and golf clubs. If you are going to be as busy as you say, get a loan and get the falcon 50. 2.5M will get you everything you are not looking and nothing you are. Good Luck.
 

BEfly

Regular User
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Aug 30, 2007
Posts
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Falcon 20 would work well too, however age could be an issue. A 50 is a lot of airplane and is going to exceed the $2500/ hour rate otherwise that would be a better choice. An Astra meets that criteria as well. I don't know what they're selling for though.
 

NCherches

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Posts
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Well I was going to say the Soverign until I saw the 2 million dollar threshold... The Bravo would be a good option too but is tight with 8 (one has to ride on the crapper). You can do 8 comfortably flying it single pilot but most 135 ops don't do this.

It has awesome small (skinny) runway preformance as well as being VERY reliable which is nice when you are running to other countries.

Can you get a decent DA50 for that price range? The Falcon 20 is old and persoanlly people like citations. They are reliable (which is good for business) and they are comfortable, well maybe a little small in comparison. Good luck!
 

340drvr

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Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Posts
454
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Westwind? (I know, they're all too old, but the $2.5M budget is a pretty short limit).
 

panama_gringo

Future Owner in Training
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Posts
17
Thanks for the replies.

Indeed, we kept the price low for a reason. Budgets are tighter down here so the higher one goes ofr charter rates, the lower the market. That said, while keeping the maket in mind, a 6 to 10 million dollar aircraft is way on the upper end of the spectrum.

How about cutting back on the pax to 4 to 5 golfers and their bags and for the Venezuela mission 5 to 7 pax?

Thanks!
 

Toolowflyer

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Posts
20
Total Time
6k+
What about a Citation III ?
fast .80+ , 7-8 pax, good baggage, APU (quite nice to have in your area), 1800NM, and still very good looking!
 

starcheck208

Active member
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Oct 20, 2005
Posts
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citation III is runway limiting. when it's hot it will want to keep you on the ground. other than that it is a good airplane
 

NCherches

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Feb 13, 2006
Posts
691
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5000+
not as good for charter as a Bravo/Excel though because of MX costs.
 

400A

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Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
1,760
Total Time
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Citation V

not as good for charter as a Bravo/Excel though because of MX costs.
He will not touch a Excel for his Budget. I think the best plane for the job while staying in your budget and leaving any room for a operational profit is the Citation V. I just checked the market and there are a couple that the ask is mid to upper 2's so after negotiations you should be in your budget. It has the seats and Baggage capacity plus runway numbers. Predictable and reliable.

The III is a great option for a mid, but you will not make money at $2500 , in fact you will loose money.
 

LegacyDriver

Moving Target
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Mar 7, 2004
Posts
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Enough
Falcon 50 baggage is tiny. Don't imagine you're going to get clubs and bags in there for five people unless they pack light...
 

Fly91

Registered Pilot
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Posts
635
Total Time
lots
Hello,

The brain trust on this forum is the reason for posting here. Read many posts and met a few of the members.

Need some input regarding good aircraft to purchase for the following missions based out of Albrook in Panama City, Panama -- MPMG (MARCOS GELABERT, PA). Runway is 5906 x 98 feet. Elevation (ft) 00031:

Panama City to:

Country Venezuela
ICAO SVVA
IATA VLN
City Valencia
Elevation (ft) 01411

691.6 NM


Country United States
ICAO KFXE
IATA FXE
U.S. State FLORIDA
Elevation (ft) 00013
1034.1 NM

Longest distance flown to the far side of the Caribbean would about 1250 nm.

Pax for the Venezuela mission would be between 6 to 8. Lots of expats in Panama going back home to visit relatives but a lot of businessmen too. Baggage not as critical.

The other missions are tourism related -- i.e. golf weekends from Panama to the best courses in the Caribbean. Probably 4 to 6 guys with their golf bags and luggage.

Two things the market is telling us -- Machismo is alive and well so ramp appeal and speed will sell.

Aircraft would be operated on a Panamanian 135 equiv. certificate by the best operator in country. Could be November registered and operated under an agreement with the owner.

The market for this is quite strong. My wife manges the operator so we have the inside information on the demand. With no marketing whatsoever for a business jet, she gets 15 to 20 hours per month worth of flight inquiries. There are no commercially registered business jets down here at the moment.

Budget up to 2.5 million. Hourly charter rate at about $2500 would be about right. Low side $2000.

Jet A down here is about $4.30 a gallon at the moment.

I have my own thoughts about aircraft but will refrain from influencing discussion.

Thanks for your consideration.

Regards,

Hunter
aircharterpanama.com
Our marketing site for charter clients coming to Panama.
Lear 55 (8 pax config) will do everything you need to do and its within your budget. F50, no way you'll find a nice one for $2.5, try $6-12 million.

You can charge $2,500-$2800 per hour all day long for a Lear 55 too.
 
Last edited:

Deskdriver101

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Posts
23
Total Time
-20
The $2.5 cap is severely limiting your aircraft choices. The only aircraft that truly meets your stated requirements is the Sabre 65. Honorable mention also goes to the Westwind II and the Falcon 20F (non-731 equipped) However, there’s no free lunch with any of these aircraft, maintenance and aircraft support are going to by an issue. In my opinion the Westwind is about as ugly as they come and the Falcon 20 will be faced with range issues going to Ft. Lauderdale.

If there where someway you could squeeze another $1 million out of the buyer it would open up your options considerably
 

ditchpilot

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Jun 17, 2005
Posts
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WWII would do the job CHEAP ( you can get the pick of the litter less then 2M)
They go inspection to inspection (200 hrs with very few calander items)
Most have BOW near 13500lbs
max ramp wt 23500lbs
7500 lbs total fuel for 1200 mile trip (6000 lbs +1500 lbs reserve)
leaving 2100 lbs for pax and bags.
Runway numbers will scare you and forget climb gradient #s
 

BoilerPilot

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Sep 7, 2005
Posts
55
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How about a Citation S/II? The 1250nm range requirement is tight for it though.
 

10mm

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Posts
22
Total Time
10000+
1124a, Na-265

Westwind II....High and hot performance not the best,
but it will carry a lot, go real far and it's pretty fast.

A Sabre 80 will also do the trick on your limited $$
but the airframe is time limited and along with the
Westwind it is no spring chicken.

Good luck,

10
 
Last edited:

400A

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
1,760
Total Time
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Straight Falcon 50. HAwker won't work because of the baggage and golf clubs. If you are going to be as busy as you say, get a loan and get the falcon 50. 2.5M will get you everything you are not looking and nothing you are. Good Luck.
Thats a great idea, at minimum triple the budget and then loose $1000 Per hour on the charters. You have no clue.:confused:
 
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