Airbus Blames AA For Crash

[TurboS7]

This is a generalization but French engineers are convinced that pilots don't know how to fly that is why everything is via electron's and autopilot. Boeing is a pilot's airplane, at any moment you can click everything off and fly it, they trust the pilot the French do not. After all the bs that has happened in the last couple of months I don't trust the French and never will.American pilots use rudders that is bad, we just all grew up flying real airplanes.

 

[mckpickle]

Yah just like Aerospatiale said there was no fault in the design of the ATR following the Roselawn crash.


French..."Oh it's not our fault!"

Not surprising.

I'm not sure you know all the facts of this crash. While it was found that moving the de-ice boots aft would help, the crew was the more to blame in this. They were holding at a very slow speed in a 72 with flaps at 15 while in SEVERE icing. It was determined that no aircraft could have withstood that same icing. And they held in it for 30 minutes. I have seen sick amounts of ice on ATR's but only long enough to get out of it. In contrast the Emb-120 has had more icing related incidents than the ATR but prehaps since only 30 people can die instead of 70 the media doesnt care as much. But lets not forget one of the big reasons this gained so much attention was a book titled "Unheeded Warning" by Stephen A. Fredrick in which he provided the media with mass histeria about the ATR. Bottom line; the pilots did not understand the danger they were in and hence didnt avoid it.

 

[Jeff G]

This is a generalization but French engineers are convinced that pilots don't know how to fly that is why everything is via electron's and autopilot. Boeing is a pilot's airplane, at any moment you can click everything off and fly it, they trust the pilot the French do not.

Oh, not this crap again. If I thought you knew what the heck you were talking about, I'd even debate with you. But since you've been repeatedly corrected on this issue, I have to assume you're just willfully ignorant and therefore not worth the trouble.

For everyone else, suffice it to say that an Airbus pilot is fully in command of the aircraft at all times and can take the airplane up to the limits just as fast and as safely as a Boeing pilot. The airplane is not on full-time autopilot as detractors insinuate, and hand-flies just fine, with or without all the "magic."

 

[seagle]

Just one question, was the aircraft below maneuvering speed? If so, then rudder inputs, as harsh as they are allleged to be really should not be an issue. And BTW, did anyone really think Airbus Industries would really take the blame? It's always easier to blame the pilots, especially when they are'nt around to defend themselves! Just my thoughts.

 

[100LL... Again!]

As much as I would love to bash the French here, any corporation would behave the same way, given our litigation-oriented culture.

Hard to believe that the pilot did something that wrong.

 

[mckpickle]

Lawyers are the lowest scum on the face of the earth. Hell they make the French and Mesa pilots seem refined.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I could have sworn i read somewhere that airbus recomended that American total that airplane well before the crash due to an incident that occured on the ground. Not sure exactly what happend but apparently some ground vehicle struck the airplane.
After repairing the damage it entered back into service.
American flew it even though Airbus recomended to scrap it.

Anyone verify this. Might be bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** but i remember reading it somewhere.

 

[chperplt]

I'm not sure you know all the facts of this crash. While it was found that moving the de-ice boots aft would help, the crew was the more to blame in this.

Wasn't the captain in the lav doing the FA during most of the hold?? I remember reading something about that in the final report.

 

[DoinTime]

I've met a lot of pilots who have hated every single airbus that has ever rolled off the assembly line. Not one of them had ever piloted an airbus.

I have never met an airbus pilot that didn't like thier airbus.

Go figure.

 

[VMA214]

Let me clear up a couple of misconceptions about this airplane. I am type rated on this airplane, fly for AA, have flown this (JFK/SDQ) trip many times and have personally flown with the co-pilot.

1. The A-300 is capable of being hand flown at a moments notice by clicking off the auto pilot. And trust me, it takes no longer than Boeing or McDonald Douglass airplanes...flown 'em both.

2. The ONLY specific rudder training AA did was during unusual attitude training for extreme nose high recoveries. After rolling to a 30 degree AOB we were trained to use a little bottom rudder to help get the nose moving toward the horizon.

3. The vertical stab/rudder assemblies on Air transport aircraft are certified for ONE full deflection of the rudder followed by a return to center. THAT is it!!! These airplanes are not certified for a rudder doublet and certainly not a triplet which is what occured on this airplane when the rudder finally departed the airframe. Engineering analysis has shown that almost any other air transport airplane out there, save maybe the 727, would have also lost the vertical stab/rudder assembly under the same conditions.

4. The rudder limiter on the A-300 does limit the movement of the rudder but, once again, protects the flight envelope for only ONE full deflection. The rudder limiter on this airplane (and this is important for you Mad Dog drivers out there) like the MD-80s has the effect of limiting the travel of the rudder PEDALS, unlike the Boeing 757/767/777 airplanes which actually limit the travel of the rudder while keeping the travel of the rudder pedals constant. Therefore, when the airplane (A-300) is starting the takeoff roll you will have about 6 inches of rudder pedal travel. At 250 knots, FULL rudder pedal travel is only about ONE inch either side of center. So, your feet only have to move from one inch of center to one inch the other side of center and you have just EXCEEDED the certified structural limit of the airplane. THIS is what most people (yours truly included) did not understand about this "rudder limiter" system.

It DOES remain to be seen what was the actual cause of the rudder moving as violently as it did. On that, I will not speculate. I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions about the airplane.

By the way, I find the A-300 to be one of the lightest and fastest rolling airplanes in its category and, having flown A-4s I know what a fast rolling airplane is!