Air Wisconsin, we hardly knew ye

[Mel Sharples]

John -

I started a new thread so we can all stay on topic. Please see my response to your earlier post here.

Thanks...

Mel


.

 

[Crossky]

Until ALPA begins to faithfully represent its regional members, this could happen to any regional airline. This time, United is playing one against the rest in an attempt to compensate for incompetent management. What's next?

The economy is doing fine; passenger load factors keep going up, and yet once again the management at United can't seem to manage to make money. So, they split up Air Wisconsin to the lowest bidder, and the race to the bottom continues.

This latest news is the beginning of the end for Air Wisconsin. Pilots, mechanics, and customer service personnel have given all they can reasonably give. Air Wisconsin abided by whatever United asks of them; open bases, close bases, and take wage concessions. But with no chance for the larger airplane United wants, Air Wisconsin can no longer compete with the lower cost airlines that provide only meager wages, no benefits, and horrible work rules.

The only hope is for ALPA to represent those members who fly for regional airlines; and that, I fear is no hope at all.

Goodbye Air Wisconsin; it's been nice knowing you.

STEP DOWN, STEP DOWN!

AWAC has 87 planes in service, 70 CRJ's and 17 Bae-146's. The CRJ flying is up for rebid, not the BAC jets. For the pilots at least there isn't much room left in the "race to the bottom": 6th yr CA $/hr : AWAC 62, Skywest 65, Mesa 61, 3rd yr FO $/hr : AWAC 34, Skywest 36, AWAC 34. Our mechanics DID NOT take any concessions last time and they will be first up to bat DEFINITELY. Even IF the CRJ's go away the BAC jet flying should still continue.

And what's this "we hardly knew ye" crap? Since 1965 how ORD knew ye, how about that? AWAC was the first United Express partner, and the first regional partner of any doemstic major airline.

Don't be saying goodbye hoser, be saying good luck. I do appreciate your sympathy though, sincerely. Just in a rotten mood right now.

Peace anyway.

 

[rptrain]

AWAC has 87 planes in service, 70 CRJ's and 17 Bae-146's. The CRJ flying is up for rebid, not the BAC jets.

And what's this "we hardly knew ye" crap? Since 1965 how ORD knew ye, how about that? AWAC was the first United Express partner, and the first regional partner of any doemstic major airline.

I think you joined the debate a bit late, but welcome aboard.

My point to the thread title was in fact what you picked up on: that the the oldest UAX partner is having the lion's share of its flying put up for bid. i.e Thanks for all your help over the years; good luck in the future.

Even with "only" the 70 CRJs worth of flying up for bid, that's more than enough to cast a pall over AWAC. There's at least 700 of my brothers who could potentially hit the streets. With my qualifications, I don't need the competition. Good luck to us all.

 

[WhiteCloud]

And what's this "we hardly knew ye" crap? Since 1965 how ORD knew ye, how about that? AWAC was the first United Express partner, and the first regional partner of any doemstic major airline.

I took the "hardly knew ye" line to reference AWAC's larger presence at IAD that started in August. AWAC reorganizes and uproots most of their pilots in one way or another to make United Express out of IAD happen and then get the rug pulled out. That's how UAL does business with their long time United Express partner? I don't care what some analyists say....with business practices like that they are NOT going to make it. You can't trust them.

 

[ILLINI]

Unfortunately guys, ALL of AWACs flying is up for bid. The 70 CRJs AND the 17 146s. In a Q&A newsletter it was asked what would happen to the 146s because they weren't mentioned in United's press release. The answer was that some things were up to speculation, but that United HAD put the 146 flying up for bid in addition to the CRJ flying.

 

[TWAER]

Well, looks like Chautauqua and Mesa will strike again....this is the price Air Wisconsin will probably pay because others are willing to whore themselves out.......last time it was Chautauqua accepting a lesser contract to get flying ( and yes I know this as fact from an employee who was at the roadshows during your negotiations)...its a sad state when these types keep pushing the industry down...I know not all of them voted yes and some are strong but it still took a majority to get it to pass.

Sorry to tell you that our CEO came out today and said that we will NOT be bidding on any more 50 seat RJ flying including the Air Wiskey United flying.

And I was at the road show and was NEVER promised flying for growth. Just stating the fact. It came from this employee right here.

 

[rightrudder]

But will your Company be bidding on 70 seat aircraft to replace our 50 seaters? I hope the answer is no.

I don't know who would want to bid on this flying, UAL is in dire straits. If I were a CEO or Owner of a regional airline, I wouldn't want to roll the dice on investing a bunch of money on new aircraft and training costs, only to have UAL go tango uniform. Or have UAL change their mind about the "agreement" and rebid what had previously awarded. Being a UEX carrier is no prize these days.

 

[TWAER]

I wouldn't say that 70 seaters are not a possibility, but I don't think that you can replace all of AW 50 seaters with 70 seaters. Tell me this though, what legacy carrier is a sure bet to sign a deal with these days? Every major is either in BK or right on the edge. Unted may not be a prize these days, but who is??? I for one hope we don't even touch flying that is being done by AW. But you know, I am just a pilot. Management has their own priorities to deal with. Don't be suprised to see Fly I bid on some of this flying. WinK Wink.......................

 

[248to2.8]

How about starting our own Regional Union. Maybe, Regional Airline Pilots Enhancment Daily? (RAPED) Sounds like a pill.

 

[surplus1]

That's how UAL does business with their long time United Express partner?

That is the basic flaw in your (and most of the rest of our) thinking. You are not and have never been UAL's "partner". What you do (just like what we do) is a commodity. You are not an "ariline" in the true sense (and neither are we). For AWAC being an "airline" ended back when UAL first bought the company and then destroyed it. For my company (CMR) being an "ariline" ended on the day that Delta bought my company.

We are service providers and we sell seats to an airline. Selling seats "seats" to airline X, is not different than selling softdrink cups to MacDonald's. The softdring cup vendor is not in the "restaurant" business and the seat vendor is not in the "airline" business. The buyer can choose where he buys the "seats" and that will always be where they are the cheapest. It doesen't matter whether or not you are a subcontractor or a wholly owned subsidiary. What our companies do is not exclusive and it is not contractually protected. The buyer (airline) will always go to the lowest bidder for its supplies whenever it can. We are not "partners". The change from revenue sharing to fee for departure ended the partner relationships.

Unless your company has a long-term contract you are "providers at will" and you can be replaced at any time, with or without cause. Even when you have a long-term contract, at some point in time it becomes renewable and the terms can change or the contract can end. Whey your "buyer" is a bankrupt company your "contract" is subject to the will of a court and can be terminated with the stroke of a pen. That's just the way it is and that is the case with all "fee-for-departure" regionals. There's a little more security when your company is a subsidiary, but a subsidiary can still be sold at any time.

Management's acceptance of the "fee-for-departure" concept sealed the fate and the future of the so-called "regional airline". It was a brilliant move on the part of the legacy carriers and a stupid move on the part of the once independent regional carriers. The regionals sold their ability to control and manage their businesses for a "few pieces of eight" and are now reaping the "rewards" of their decision.

My company refused to buy-in to the "fee-for-departure" concept and the consequence was a buy-out of our company by the big guy. Our management walked away with the big bucks, the shareholders got their money back, and the employees (as usual) got the shaft. My "Company" ceased to exist on the day the transaction closed.

What United left of your company after the first rape accepted the fee for departure. From that day forward it has existed at the will of UAL. Yes, you can reject UAL's RFP. However, if you do that you must then find somebody else to buy what you produce (seats) for you no longer possess the ability or the structure to sell them in your own right. The only other option is to do what ACA did and launch an "airline" in your own right. In today's market the risk of doing that is very high and may not be a viable option for AWAC. You sure can't do it with the equipment you operated at present. Indy's bold move is dependent on their ability to get the AirBus up and running before they run out of money. Personally, I hope they succeed but it's a rough road and all the big dudes are working overtime to ensure their failure.

As pilots we need to get over the illusions of "partnership" with the mainline. They are not realistic. The best we can do is try to protect our job security. None of us has done a good job of that. Instead, we have all chosen to get a few dollars and focus on moving on to a "major". Now that there are no "majors" to move on to, our failure to protect our own interests is back to haunt us.

We all suffer from the illusion that we belong to a union of brotherhood. That is but another stupid idea. The people who run the "union" have the same mindset as the management of the legacy carriers, i.e., control and use the idiots; abuse them when you can; discard them when you can't. There is no "brotherhood" and there never was. We have allowed ourselves to be suckered into that idea and played like fiddles at the hands of our so-called brothers. It's been going on for well over a decade, but we still can't figure it out and we still won't protect ourselves. Once again we think we are "partners"; once again we are not.

Smell the coffee!