Air Wisconsin minimums lowered?

[norskman2]

bafanguy,

as always, your words are measured, thoughtful and insightful. we all benefit from your years of experience -- you are a valuable asset to this discussion and the board.

 

[bafanguy]

Norksman2, Thanks <...insert blushing here...>

 

[crash312]

It is not so much a matter of time or whether or not they flight instructed, towed banners, or what not. I've flown with 300 hour first officers and believe it or not the overwhelming majority of them are above average pilots. Experience in the real world (i.e. dodging tstorms) may be lacking a bit, but not anymore than a 1500 hour flight instructor in a 172 or Seminole. I trust in the intructors and check airman not to let anybody through the process that is incapable no matter what their logbook says.

The bigger issue is how one views the industry as a whole and what they feel their part in the big picture is. The AWAC program is a backdoor PFT program whatever way you look at it. Granted the numbers are small, for now, but will increase as the company figures out how many people are naive enough to do this. I say naive (not stupid) because if I had the money (I didn't) to do it and someone told me it would get me a job at a regional airline I probably would. What we as airline profession need to do is show these prospective PFT'ers is the error in their ways before they plunk down $18,000. Just imagine every airline doing this. Do you want to pay $18,000 for the "chance" at your next job? The first few who got through this program with AWAC/CAE will end up being a pilot like anyother at AWAC because they slipped in at the beginning under the radar so to speak. They will, however, be messengers to the their buddies back in Florida. They will tell their friends they are not welcome by the AWAC pilot group plain and simple. For those who don't heed the advice your career (most likely a long one) at AWAC will be a miserable one. If and when you do leave the PFT title will follow you as this is a very small industry. The pilot group here understands the seriousness of this slippery slope that mgt is embarking on and we will do whatever it takes to close this back door. You can argue forever on this board whether it is fair or not but bottom line is PFT pilots are not welcome here.

 

[beech1900kid]

I truly feel priviledged to be where I am and I'm excited at the oppurtunity that has been offered to me. So when I hear many of the comments posted here it's a bit discouraging. I think what I need to do is stay off these boards, they are to depressing. Case in point is the "screw this industry" thread.

Lets get this much straight. You weren't offered a G0D D&NM thing. You bought what you have. And now, funny enough, you are pissed that people won't shake your hand because you can peck buttoms on an FCP like a good little monkey.

 

[beech1900kid]

Forgot to add that I don't want to read any useless chatter that you PFT's are going to inevitably reply with. Suck it up. You cut the line and don't be surprised when you get ejected from the park for unruly behavior and/or being a jacka$$.

 

[pipejockey]

Lets get this much straight. You weren't offered a G0D D&NM thing. You bought what you have. And now, funny enough, you are pissed that people won't shake your hand because you can peck buttoms on an FCP like a good little monkey.

You are truly one big time loser 1900punka**!! In this thread I have defended the so called "lowtime" pilots that many of you have a problem with. I have asserted that people should be judged on their competence and dedication in getting where they are. Not condemned for HOW they got where they did. And I did not PFT. Not one dollar went from my pocket to an airlines pocket. As I've said before I oppose PFT but I'm not going to treat PFTers like the scum of the earth because they did what they felt they needed to.
I did however not take the traditional path to an airline job, I originally decided to enter a bridge type program that hired us at 400 hours at Eagle and ASA prior to 9/11. I know for a fact that not one pilot from my flight school out of over 100 hired, washed out of training. Not the same can be said for the street hire. I was hired with over 600 multi and over 300 turbine and have 135 experience as well. I don't think I "cut" any line.
I never said I was pissed no one will shake my hand because thats not the case. And don't presume to tell me what I was or wasn't offered. Thankfully I'm not at the airline whose reputation you sully with the hate you spew on this message board. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near an airline that hires people like you. It's amazing how lowlifes like you can get through ANY interview let alone one for a pilot position.

 

[labbats]

It is not so much a matter of time or whether or not they flight instructed, towed banners, or what not. I've flown with 300 hour first officers and believe it or not the overwhelming majority of them are above average pilots. Experience in the real world (i.e. dodging tstorms) may be lacking a bit, but not anymore than a 1500 hour flight instructor in a 172 or Seminole. I trust in the intructors and check airman not to let anybody through the process that is incapable no matter what their logbook says.

The bigger issue is how one views the industry as a whole and what they feel their part in the big picture is. The AWAC program is a backdoor PFT program whatever way you look at it. Granted the numbers are small, for now, but will increase as the company figures out how many people are naive enough to do this. I say naive (not stupid) because if I had the money (I didn't) to do it and someone told me it would get me a job at a regional airline I probably would. What we as airline profession need to do is show these prospective PFT'ers is the error in their ways before they plunk down $18,000. Just imagine every airline doing this. Do you want to pay $18,000 for the "chance" at your next job? The first few who got through this program with AWAC/CAE will end up being a pilot like anyother at AWAC because they slipped in at the beginning under the radar so to speak. They will, however, be messengers to the their buddies back in Florida. They will tell their friends they are not welcome by the AWAC pilot group plain and simple. For those who don't heed the advice your career (most likely a long one) at AWAC will be a miserable one. If and when you do leave the PFT title will follow you as this is a very small industry. The pilot group here understands the seriousness of this slippery slope that mgt is embarking on and we will do whatever it takes to close this back door. You can argue forever on this board whether it is fair or not but bottom line is PFT pilots are not welcome here.

well said

 

[WhiteCloud]

As of today AWAC is still hiring pilots with significant experience. The main drawback to selecting AWAC as an employer is the very long estimate of upgrade to Captain which the company is estimating at 8-9 years. That's what the company is saying to new hire candidates anyway. How many pilots with significant flight time will accept that long to upgrade? Not many. Unless something changes, most of the FO list will be a revolving door.