Air WIlly New Hire Times, WOW

[Turtlesfly]

Check out the list of recent graduates - you see lots of Colgan, XJT and AWAC. I'm not sure I'd be excited to have my name on that list. Well I don't know, if I spent that much for a type rating maybe I would want the world to know.

 

[Victor Meldrew]

As far as the comments about high timers with experience not getting the job, isn't it possible they aren't the most economical candiadate as they will be more likely to leave before the company can break even. Better to hire someone who doesn't have close to the mins. for a better job.

This is exactly what they want, low time and will stay for a while. Experienced ones will only move on too soon. Maybe it's also part of the ploy to get the long termers outs - frustrate them with low timers (almost working for me at least, had some recently that I even question if they even flew the couple hundred hours they claim to have).

 

[pipejockey]

This is exactly what they want, low time and will stay for a while. Experienced ones will only move on too soon.

I disagree. You cannot move on to anything better until you get that part 121 turbine PIC, at least 1000 hours of it to even have an outside shot at moving on. And these low timers will upgrade after spending the same amount of time there as the high timers.

If these low timers are so bad, I don't know why the airlines continue to hire them. I would really like to know the reasons. Now I don't know if these graduates get all the training that a normal new hire gets when they are hired by these airlines. I have heard of some guys with these type ratings not being sent on to systems class with the rest of the new hires, and also being scheduled for about 4 sim sessions instead of the normal 10 or so. And we all know many people even need more than the 10 alotted and most of the time get it right? If this is what these airlines do, then it is purely a financial decision. I would really like to know just how much money these multi million dollar airlines actually save by hiring these type rating guys.

 

[WickedPissa]

As far as the comments about high timers with experience not getting the job, isn't it possible they aren't the most economical candiadate as they will be more likely to leave before the company can break even. Better to hire someone who doesn't have close to the mins. for a better job.

I was a high timer hired with AWAC. I thought I could settle there flying the 146 in Colorado. Then AWAC became an east coast feeder and another opportunity came up and I left. I hope I didn't help f&%$ it up for the rest of the high timers.

By the way, chief pilot Orozco was cool as hell when I resigned. AWAC was a first class place.

 

[WickedPissa]

I can't believe a good airline like Air Whiskey is turning into every other regional. WTF is up with rich wonderboys? Another riddle, purdue or und grad I assume???

As far as "turning into every other regional", didn't AWAC tell United to jam it up thier a$$ when UAL put all of AWAC's flying up for the lowest bidder in the recent past? I believe Mesa and Sky West underbid what AWAC was willing to do the job for, and AWAC got canned.

 

[SIG600]

And to think there used to be a pilot when you had to have at least 2000 TT, 1000 ME, and 500 Turbine to even be considered there at AWAC

Signs of the times dude... where's yip with his "June 2007" crystal ball?

 

[Crossky]

As far as "turning into every other regional", didn't AWAC tell United to jam it up thier a$$ when UAL put all of AWAC's flying up for the lowest bidder in the recent past? I believe Mesa and Sky West underbid what AWAC was willing to do the job for, and AWAC got canned.

AirWis still bid on the United flying they were doing in the first place when big blue put it out to farm. It's speculated that we were underbid by everyone, including TSA and Chat/Shuttle/Repub too.

 

[Victor Meldrew]

I disagree. You cannot move on to anything better until you get that part 121 turbine PIC, at least 1000 hours of it to even have an outside shot at moving on. And these low timers will upgrade after spending the same amount of time there as the high timers.

You hire a low timer so they will have to spend a couple of years in the right seat until they can hold the ATP and move up the ranks in order to get an upgrade. During this time you have got back your training costs. They upgrade, get the hours and move on hopefully before they have been there 5+ years and the company also has to pay a chunck of $$ to fully vest your 401K.

Hire a high timer and you still have to put them through training but they may leave within the first year or two and your out of the several thousand $$ you invested - not a very good return on your investment.

You also have to remember that AWAC has some very longtime pilots here due to it's history and standing in the aviation community. I am not sure about the others but I don't think they have 20+ year seniority pilots (at least in the numbers we do). These guys are getting close to $100 an hour right now on an RJ and the company is still pulling in several million dollars in profit per quater.

When we get our old contract and pay back in the coming months these guys will be pulling in $120 or so an hour and even a 6 year seniority CA will be getting $77 , $1.75 PD all at block or better, 3.5 trip rigs etc. Now this will have an effect of having those here or joining possibly staying a long time due to wages and the company wouldn't want to be paying someone 10+ years rather have a continual supply of fresh meat.

 

[rightrudder]

As far as the comments about high timers with experience not getting the job, isn't it possible they aren't the most economical candiadate as they will be more likely to leave before the company can break even. Better to hire someone who doesn't have close to the mins. for a better job.

I don't think they care about whether people quit. We have a very high amount of attrition. Most of it is due to crappy schedules and the commute. A seven year CA recently gave notice that he was leaving to become a SKywest FO! No $hit!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

As far as "turning into every other regional", didn't AWAC tell United to jam it up thier a$$ when UAL put all of AWAC's flying up for the lowest bidder in the recent past? I believe Mesa and Sky West underbid what AWAC was willing to do the job for, and AWAC got canned.

From what I understand this is how it unfolded.

UAL> "Hello AWAC, we are puting your flying up for bid so go cheaper."
AWAC> "o.k. here's our offer."
UAL> "Nope not low enough"
AWAC> "o.K. hows this"
UAL> "No still not low enough"
AWAC "O.K. hows this, and heres some 70 seaters"
UAL> "not quite low enough
(Secret meetings with USAIR taking place)
AWAC> "hows this"
UAL> "not there yet"
(awac announces deal with USAIR)
AWAC> Retracts last bid resubmits the first. "This is it take it or leave it" (in other words Fu$# off)
UAL terminates AWACS flying, the VP who gave it away was fired, Glen Tilton is so happy with the $8million annually saved by replacing AWAC but the total cost for the transition of UAL was around $220 million.

UAL wants AWAC to keep flying DEN-ASE routes with the 146. AWAC wanted a 10yr 10airplane deal. UAL wanted somthing like a 3yr 5 airplane deal. AWAC tell UAL to take a long walk off a short pier.

UAL wanted to buy the GPS approach procedure from AWAC for ASE. AWAC says no not for sale. That day UAL announced all travel privilages for AWAC personnel will be over at midnight.(over a month and a half early)

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

As far as the comments about high timers with experience not getting the job, isn't it possible they aren't the most economical candiadate as they will be more likely to leave before the company can break even. Better to hire someone who doesn't have close to the mins. for a better job.

I think the real reason is guys with no time and no industry experience are more than likely to vote yes for "concessions for growth."

 

[Rekks Inbound]

BINGO!!!!!

Peace.

Rekks

 

[flyupder]

Yes that's true. I know of one kid with only 500 hrs, rich daddy bought a CRJ type, and had a recent DUI that got hired. Also know lots of 121 guys with stellar resume's that didn't. I guess hiring people who can't get a job any where else is their work around for not having a training contract.

a couple of the 121 guys from my class quickly left on to the majors or corporate. They were Indy guys. Could be a reason they're afraid of 121? but a few days ago I called on a buddy for the interview and they said only 121/135 guys can get in. Hmmm... sounds fishy.

 

[414Flyer]

I disagree. You cannot move on to anything better until you get that part 121 turbine PIC, at least 1000 hours of it to even have an outside shot at moving on. And these low timers will upgrade after spending the same amount of time there as the high timers.

Thats only if one has such a narrow view as what is "better", that it only consist of jobs like Jet Blue, FedEx, SWA, etc. There is a lot more to aviation than just those kind of jobs.

 

[Soverytired]

Just checking out old aviationinterviews...if we are really dipping THIS low I am shocked:

May 17,2006 interview
TT 410!
PIC 232!!

Now Im not saying the guy/gal is not qualified but wow, just wow and if that is fact no one should be applying at Mesa ever

Naw, 410 TT is WAY TOO QUALIFIED for a new-hire at Mesa.

 

[pipejockey]

Thats only if one has such a narrow view as what is "better", that it only consist of jobs like Jet Blue, FedEx, SWA, etc. There is a lot more to aviation than just those kind of jobs.

Ok lets look at Netjets, a very fine company, and I bet you don't stand much of a chance without turbine PIC. So lets take out the part 121 then, but you still need turbine PIC. Look at the corporate jobs, same thing.

 

[BoilerUP]

TPIC is not needed for NetJets, nor is it needed for many good part 91/135 jobs.

 

[D'Angelo]

the market bears what the market bears. If its legal its gravy baby! Its a good way to stay competitive!

 

[flyboyike]

TPIC is not needed for NetJets, nor is it needed for many good part 91/135 jobs.

It's not "needed", but it certainly helps.

 

[BoilerUP]

It's not "needed", but it certainly helps.

No doubt! Multi-turbine PIC is the best kind of flight time out there...

...but its not needed at NJA and certainly isn't needed to get insured on most bizjets. It does, however, make it easier. Kinda like how being rich isn't needed, but it certainly helps...

 

[414Flyer]

There are still jobs out there that would be considered better than a regional captain job, that dont need 1000 hours PIC 121 turbine.

Those kind of jobs that are the hardest to hunt down, are probably the least likely to fawn upon 121 time anyways. Those jobs you will often have you show up personally and actually be a individual,and not just numbers on a resume. They will assume you can already fly since you have a lot of hours and have not killed yourself. But they may want to know if they can spend a few months at a time with you at some airport, or go on extended international trips with you and enjoy it.

I know of a regional captain who got turned down for a CDF OV-10 job, and I could tell why once i met the person. It wasnt about his flying at all.

Pilots on WxMod projects in turbine planes (esp overseas) get paid pretty good, but again its they liking you and having a high opinion of you, and working as a team.

There are some awesome corporate flying jobs out there ( in addition some crappy ones). Just dont walk up thinking you are great because you have turbine 121 PIC time, because that will defintely get you sent home fast.

Some people go into flying being very narrow minded and thinking airlines is all they want to do, and if its not airline flying, then its crap.

Unfortunately, you can read the messages on here for the last 5 years, and rest assured, if it is airline flying, it probably is crap.

 

[Flying Ninja]

TPIC is not needed for NetJets, nor is it needed for many good part 91/135 jobs.

It's not needed but d4mn they want a lot of hours:

Airline Transport Pilot Certificate (Multi-Engine Land)
Current (issued within 6 months) FAA First Class Medical certificate
2500 hours total pilot time
500 hours fixed wing multi-engine time
250 hours instrument time (actual or simulated in flight - excludes simulator time)

 

[Flying Ninja]

Hey 414Flyer,

You said, "...There are still jobs out there that would be considered better than a regional captain job...Those kind of jobs that are the hardest to hunt down..."

How does one go about locating these jobs? Regionals is an obvious direction to go. You're suggesting a path less travelled. But it's hard to travel down that path if one can not locate it. Do you have any hints to share?

 

[Maiko]

Just checking out old aviationinterviews...if we are really dipping THIS low I am shocked:

May 17,2006 interview
TT 410!
PIC 232!!
Turbine 0
Multi 128
Walked in NO
Class date July 1, 2006

Now Im not saying the guy/gal is not qualified but wow, just wow and if that is fact no one should be applying at Mesa ever

That would explain the stupid A$$ write ups.
"Bird poop on right wing" I'm sorry anyone that fn stupid shouldn't be flyin.
Just for the record, this was really written up in the log book in PHL.
And everyone wonders why our costs are so high. The flight even took a delay! WTF
I guess its true, The only reason there are stupid people is because its illegal to shoot them.

 

[FN FAL]

Hey 414Flyer,

You said, "...There are still jobs out there that would be considered better than a regional captain job...Those kind of jobs that are the hardest to hunt down..."

How does one go about locating these jobs? Regionals is an obvious direction to go. You're suggesting a path less travelled. But it's hard to travel down that path if one can not locate it. Do you have any hints to share?

One of those jobs called me at my house and I never even sent them a resume. I cancelled interviews at two other 135 jobs and never looked back.

You have to get knocked around the "system" a couple of times before your focus adjusts enough to allow you to see and value other opportunities.

 

[Caveman]

Getting typed in a multipilot turbine a/c is quite an accomplishment for someone with less than 500 hours. Most 500 hour pilots would have a VERY difficult time passing a legitimate type ride in any RJ. $25K or not, if the checkride was legit and they passed why shouldn't they get a chance at the job? They clearly have the aptitude.

I don't like the idea of more qualified applicants being passed over, but that's not the lowtimers fault.

 

[BoilerUP]

That would explain the stupid A$$ write ups.
"Bird poop on right wing" I'm sorry anyone that fn stupid shouldn't be flyin.
Just for the record, this was really written up in the log book in PHL.
And everyone wonders why our costs are so high. The flight even took a delay!

Usually captains deal with mx writeups, not lowtime newbie FOs, so take your vitrol out on them. I agree that "bird poop" is a pretty dumb writeup, though...

Our costs are probably so high because airplanes go into mx in Norfolk at night and the next morning the planes are still broke, causing the delay of 5 oversold flights...

 

[Mercury]

How does one go about locating these jobs? Regionals is an obvious direction to go. You're suggesting a path less travelled. But it's hard to travel down that path if one can not locate it. Do you have any hints to share?

Ninja,

I know your question was directed to 414, but perhaps I can add some insight as someone who has made the move from regional captain to coporate (fortune 200 company.) The first point I want to make is its not a question of which is better in the eyes of someone on a message board, it is however a question of what is better or better suits your individual lifestyle.
I had a blast in the commuter/regional world, made lifelong friends, got all kinds of experience (both flying and life lessons) and got to travel to places I otherwise would not have gone (loved those passes). Pretty good deal, but in the back of my mind I wasnt really content so off I went down the "road less traveled."
Now to answer your question regarding "how??", I truly believe that everyone you ask will have a different answer. I spent lots of time networking; visiting old college freinds that were flying for corporations both big and small, meeting the pilots and department managers, researching not just the flight depts. but the corporate cultures and climates at those companies. Once that list was developed I would call the hangar of XYZ corp., ask if it would be ok to drop off a resume, hopefuly get to talk with someone at the hangar, then update about every 4-6 months. For me the process took a little over 2 years but has worked out nicley ever since. So to wrap it all up, I'm not sure there is one best way to locate the path, but I do know your path, and the reward at the end of it will be different from mine and everyone elses.
My pay off was better qol, much better pay, no commute and a lot of time at home with the family....etc.
Each path has its own set of risks and rewards so good luck in your journey and feel free to PM if you have any other questions.

M

 

[BigLebowski]

I pretty sure I know this dude. He like many other unskilled cfi's bought a 25grand crj type.

HAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...what a loser.