Air Whisky Hiring??

[avrodriver]

Jeeees.....500's......high 400's......same sh.it ( although I know when you can just taste it, every number counts) Take out all the numbers in my posts and it still reads clear. We are not offering a quick upgrade to anyone, we are offering a good contract, some decent hiring numbers for those who act now, and a route structure attractive to east coasters or people that are d.umb enough to chase their jobs all over the country like myself. Any potential new hire that comes on here asking what upgrade is at is a fool to think it will be the same for them, no matter what airline your talking about. Doing the math, the F/O above who has been here since NOV 02 (2 3/4 years) would probably be in the top 5 F/O's in IAD.........somewhere around the number 12 thru 110 or whatever it is in IAD haven't even hit their two year anniversary yet. Yes this is our junior base, but it proves a point, I don't care when someone was hired or what their senority number is.....their story will always be unique to them and only them. Well....... I did all my posting for the month, see you guys in another month or so. AD

 

[WhiteCloud]

Yeah. I'm 450 out of 870. I'm a JR Captain and have been for 9 months. I'm pretty sure I'll be an FO when this is all over (as long as I stay away from ORF.) That means being here 4.5 years and an F.O. again.

We have lot's of people leaving, but many of them are fairly junior First Officers.

S.

That could be me too......what happens with pay for an involuntary downgrade anyway?

 

[Beechnut]

All I know is F.O. pay doesn't start until you touch the airplane as an F.O. (ahem...)

S.

 

[Twotter76]

Yeah ORF will be terrible - both of you guys stay out.


As a quick side note to the bitching on the previous page every realignment that has come out so far has had a net increase in seats (60 displaced/75 openings). And there are only a few more DEN people left (57 I believe) to be aligned into the current (ORD, IAD) domicle structure so that should give us a better idea where things stand. As a JR Captain I guess I could see where you might end up downgraded if you rule out ORF but otherwise I just can't see it.

 

[AWACoff]

You have got to have quality of life though. Work to live...not live to work. ORF is going to be uncommutable. The probable good news is that once the pilots find out how bad commuting to the east coast is, many will quit. You might only be downgraded on paper. With the current attrition rate...I doubt anybody will lose their captain seat.

 

[c-wood75]

Avro i agree with everything you said, it wont be that bad at AWAC...if you live in the east which i dont...but AWAC was not what I or anybody else over there was told it would be in the interview. we were all delibrately lied to by saying we have a united contract until 2011 or whatever, so how can you blame me for being a tid bitter...

If i was told the truth i could have gone to Chautauqua, and upgraded just like the 14 months FO's that are upgrading into the E-170. Now that will not be happening at AWAC anytime soon.

 

[WhiteCloud]

AWAC was not what I or anybody else over there was told it would be in the interview. we were all delibrately lied to by saying we have a united contract until 2011 or whatever, so how can you blame me for being a tid bitter...

If i was told the truth i could have gone to Chautauqua, and upgraded just like the 14 months FO's that are upgrading into the E-170. Now that will not be happening at AWAC anytime soon.

Cmon Woody.....I don't think you were "deliberately lied to". It's been a pretty crazy couple years with UAL yanking the rug out from under ACA and AWAC too. I doubt anyone, including the 3 amigos, could have predicted the past few years with any degree of accuracy. A job interview isn't really the place to gather info anyway. The interviewer may just have told you what they believed the truth was at the time.

 

[Mayday911]

Regardless of everything...no matter what you do in this crazy career is a gamble. Nothing is a sure thing. The upgrade time at Sh!tauqua is not going to remain around a year forever, that is impossible. The larger the pilot group the more airplanes are needed to be acquired in order to see movement.

People that are bailing off the AWAC seniority list to go to CHQ, Skypest...are fooling themselves if they think that they are going to get a quick upgrade at their new carrier. Plus the F/O pay really sucks at CHQ.

Oh, and I would be #7 in IAD.
Mayday

 

[c-wood75]

yeah, 65 cents an hour less than AWAC,


but being off reserve at CHQ while being on reserve indefinately as i was at AWAC means you make more money as an FO at CHQ. also upgrading in 2 years as opposed to 6-10 years at awac...captain CHQ pay is much higher than AWAC FO pay.

do some research. dont go to AWAC>

 

[Beer&Brauts]

yeah, 65 cents an hour less than AWAC,


but being off reserve at CHQ while being on reserve indefinately as i was at AWAC means you make more money as an FO at CHQ. also upgrading in 2 years as opposed to 6-10 years at awac...captain CHQ pay is much higher than AWAC FO pay.

do some research. dont go to AWAC>

One last time:
Hourly pay does not = total compensation

 

[crashpad]

being off reserve at CHQ while being on reserve indefinately as i was at AWAC means you make more money as an FO at CHQ. captain CHQ pay is much higher than AWAC FO pay.
do some research. dont go to AWAC>

This is the kind of guy you DON'T want making investment decisions for your future. Besides, do you really want to work for an airline named....I....I...I can't even say it without sounding like a flaming gay Frenchman!

 

[spitfire1500]

Yeah. I'm 450 out of 870. I'm a JR Captain and have been for 9 months. I'm pretty sure I'll be an FO when this is all over (as long as I stay away from ORF.) That means being here 4.5 years and an F.O. again.

We have lot's of people leaving, but many of them are fairly junior First Officers.

S.

ORF ?.....I thought you guys were headed to lovely DCA and the even greater PHL!!! One good thing I was headed back to the CLT smoking area and I saw AWAC ballast bags in a bag cart! USAirways......what fun!!

 

[c-wood75]

People that are bailing off the AWAC seniority list to go to CHQ, Skypest...are fooling themselves if they think that they are going to get a quick upgrade at their new carrier. Plus the F/O pay really sucks at CHQ.

CHQ has NO junior manning either.

But, you guys are right, I really miss having crew sched calling my house at 4am twice a week and waking up my entire family to do a MKE turn.

or getting done with a long 4 day and looking forward to going home and then getting the message to call crew scheduling b/c ill be spending the night in moline, whether i like it or not. OHH. i miss that....

 

[Skyguy]

The three amigos and the three hidden owners planned to hose the pilots and sell them a bad bill of goods from the very beginning. They passed on dealing with Frontier, they knew they were closing Den. And most pilots think hosing UA was the plan along. Not signing the UA TA and keeping the money to start EAstShore Investment with employee money is corporate robbery. To up-root 4000 familys and expect them to move across the country is crazy. After all Apsen and MAX (the two merged airlines to AWAC) were Denver based airlines before AWAC. ALPA has a share of the fault also. They had access to the financials and suggested the pilot group vote in the TA. Because the airline is a privately owned company the books are not available for inspection for anyone else. The moral is so low at AWAC, it can clear a snake,s belly and not touch went crossing. The wonderful flight crews at AWAC deserve better. It wouldn't surprise me if a little flight crew choas against AWAC began. All the owners and most of the management deserve a bread line because they are all snakes and lied to an employee group that cared. Best of luck to all the AWAC folks. Keep your resumes current and in circulation.

Been there and done that. I hated the cheese.

 

[Mayday911]

My point in saying that the CHQ F/O pay sucks was tied into my other statement that the upgrade times aren't going to remain low forever. Someone has to be the last guy on the list and be on reserve for a long time.

And like a previous poster said...hourly rate by no means dictates total compensation.

I have never been junior manned in almost three years, and CHQ is probably going to be the company doing those MKE turns. Enjoy!!

Mayday.

 

[hoover]

The three amigos and the three hidden owners planned to hose the pilots and sell them a bad bill of goods from the very beginning. They passed on dealing with Frontier, they knew they were closing Den. And most pilots think hosing UA was the plan along. Not signing the UA TA and keeping the money to start EAstShore Investment with employee money is corporate robbery. To up-root 4000 familys and expect them to move across the country is crazy. After all Apsen and MAX (the two merged airlines to AWAC) were Denver based airlines before AWAC. ALPA has a share of the fault also. They had access to the financials and suggested the pilot group vote in the TA. Because the airline is a privately owned company the books are not available for inspection for anyone else. The moral is so low at AWAC, it can clear a snake,s belly and not touch went crossing. The wonderful flight crews at AWAC deserve better. It wouldn't surprise me if a little flight crew choas against AWAC began. All the owners and most of the management deserve a bread line because they are all snakes and lied to an employee group that cared. Best of luck to all the AWAC folks. Keep your resumes current and in circulation.

Been there and done that. I hated the cheese.

I refuse to believe that about our management team. I've worked for them for almost six years (non-pilot) and I have daily contact with them. They are not out to screw anybody. Their intent is to run a quality airline that is around for the long term. They did the best they could do with United and still remain a viable operation. They wanted to stay with United, but United's terms were impossible to meet. How do you compete when United is offering up our flying to other carriers in bits and pieces? We had to bid as a whole what other carriers could bid in increments. I don't believe United ever had any intent of retaining us. Our management team did the best they could under the circumstances.

I think the people who are leaving because they are chasing an upgrade are going to come to regret that decision. While things are uncertain with us right now, I think within a year we will be adding airplanes and growing like wildfire.

Time will tell

 

[hoover]

By the way, we ARE hiring lots of pilots due to attrition. Good or bad right or wrong, because of the uncertainty surrounding us right now, we are hiring a lot of lower time guys. Even if you have under 1000 hours you might want to consider applying.

 

[Beer&Brauts]

I think within a year we will be adding airplanes and growing like wildfire.

I admire your optimism but I don't see any growth in our future!

Upgrade time is always a crapshoot. It was around 6 months when I interviewed and I was here about a year before my number came up. Those with 1 year less seniority than me are now at best junior captains.

 

[J32driver]

I too am one of the optomistic guys.

I truly beleive that UAL tried to rope AWAC into a deal that was unsustainable for us. I don't beleive the Amigos set out to screw the employees. I think they just got caught with their pants down when things went south. The fact that the Amigos were able to come up with a plan "B" means alot to me. They could always just pack up their toys and get out of the sandbox if they wanted too. But they didn't. With a little bit of black magic and voodoo, they found a plan to keep the majority of the company employed. Again... that means alot to me. I certainly realize the Amigo's are going to get stinking rich from this deal, but they are already stinking rich and could go sit on a beach and drink mai tais for the rest of their lives if they wanted to. BUT... they didn't.

CHQ has NO junior manning either.

But, you guys are right, I really miss having crew sched calling my house at 4am twice a week and waking up my entire family to do a MKE turn.

or getting done with a long 4 day and looking forward to going home and then getting the message to call crew scheduling b/c ill be spending the night in moline, whether i like it or not. OHH. i miss that....

Doing your job as a reserve pilot is a real b1tch isn't it? Guess what... reserve at any other company is no different. Good luck and I'd guess that my cockpit is a happier place without you in it. I'm glad your at a company that you like now.

For those of you looking at flying for AWAC:
We are in a state of change. Expect it to be ugly, scary, and full of unhappy people. Once you look past that, the seniority list is starting to move with people leaving. AND... don't be surprised when we add 30 planes to the fleet over the next 2 years or so. (heard it here on flightinfo 1st... you can take it to the bank... heh heh)

 

[Dr.Hwang]

I beleive a class of 19 start today and the same size to start in August.