Air War College Stuff?

[AlbieF15]

Bros,

I NEVER thought I'd be even asking a question like this--but I am about to start doing AWC. Here are a few questions for you old farts who've bitten the bullet and done it or you fast burners (defined as anyone younger than me!) moving up who are currently knocking it out...

A. Correspondence verses seminar pros and cons? I've done everything else by correspondence, but that doesn't mean its the most painless way...

B. Dirty purples? Any idea where to find some good, current study guides for current classes?

C. Options to wiggle into school? Any part timers found a way into any of the courses offered at the schools?

D. Anything else I'm missing?

I'm about 2 paygrades ahead of where I EVER thought I'd end up, but I'm still enjoying serving and there might be some good options down the road IF I get this knocked out. Currently an O-5 but if I could swing O-6 might stay for 24/28/30 years. Any thoughts from those who've been there/done that are appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[YeOldeProp]

Hey...I'm 2+ years off of active duty (and opted not to do the AWC side of the house), but had a few friends that did. I believe the majority preferred the correspondence side, merely because their bosses got in the way of the weekly meeting for seminar. Better explained: they were encouraged to sign up for seminar because the Col's liked it, but when it came time to give up 3-4 hours during midweek to attend, then work was more important than their PFE. Also, our deployment schedule was fairly hectic and they couldn't honestly believe that they wouldn't be deploying somewhere in the year. I believe their rules went along the lines of: you miss 3 seminars, you're booted from that side and have to start all over via correspondence. But, those who didn't deploy had a good time with it.

I believe if you get out in the Google/search engine world you can find a variety of dirty purples. I know the SOS and ACSC correspondence guys were pulling them off the web fairly regularly. And from what I've been told from those that did their AWC...it's a "partial" re-hash of the ACSC stuff.

Anyway, best of luck. I'd be really surprised if the ANG/Reserve side of the house didn't have a huge binder set up somwhere in the unit that paved the road a bit for ya...

 

[RampFreeze]

www.allpme.com

You can download a few files for free, then they require you to subscribe. (It used to be all free but times have changed...) Also, beware that AWC just changed their course (Now called Version 16, Senior Leader Course) It is new, so there isn't a lot of good gouge out there yet... (I'm trying to decide whether or not to subscribe myself right now)

One more hint- as you know 70% is what it takes to pass the multiple choice exams. (The 16th Ed has written work involved as well ) I had a squadron/CC who took every multiple choice test cold (no studying) and passed them all. Any amount of effort that gets you a score above 70% is wasted effort - there are no DGs in correspondence...

 

[viperdriver]

Albie do you get paid to do PME? Do you log it is a UTA or something? If so any pay difference between Seminar and Correspondence?

ViperD

 

[pkober]

It would be a stretch to get paid for PME at home. If your unit allows it more power to them.

We should get a bonus just for ordering the books.

CLAMBAKE

 

[AlbieF15]

Nope--no pay at all for PME. Nice time killer on layovers, however...

 

[Steeler Fan]

Nope--no pay at all for PME. Nice time killer on layovers, however...

I'm pretty sure you get points for it, though. Good luck Albie. Keep us posted, I'm about 1 year away from asking all the questions that you're asking right now.

 

[CCDiscoB]

Wow

...I am about to start doing AWC

Wow, I'm impressed. I don't think I'm going to do it, but things change. I don't see myself becoming an O-6. But then again I maybe taking mil leave for three years, DETCO job, and I didn't think I would do that either. The current DETCO here has the "purples." He got them off a web site.

 

[bssthound]

Holy Cow, Albie!!
Just a few short years ago we were scratching our heads together over ACSC dirty purples. Now I sit patiently waiting for my O-5 board this year and you're already clearin' a place on your shoulders to rest those silver eagles!! I'm bettin' on your becoming the first Guardsman Chief of Staff!!

Seriously, PM me. I'll ask around today.

 

[AlbieF15]

Guys--I appreciate the kudos but all I am doing is entering the lottery. Just like you have to buy a lottery ticket to play, you have to have AWC done to even BE CONSIDERED for promotion. Buying a ticket doesn't make you a millionare, and getting AWC done doesn't make you an O-6.

I orginally thought I'd be 20 and out...but...I've met some really neat warriors at FDX that have sort of inspired me to at least consider continuing. One guy is a 1 or 2 star guy who works at STRATCOM. Deals with issues and problems at the macro level that are incredible...and also is a widebody captain. Another guy is/was a Wing CC/Vice Wing who flew A-10s in the war in Afgahnistan. Both guys kind of got me thinking that being a citizen soldier DOESN'T have to stop just because you get to 20 years...

So...there are some opportunites as BRAC descends on us and new opportunites open up. I just want to be ready...in case...

Like CCDiscoB--I didn't think I'd be here at this point. However, things change, and I've learned it is best to not only not burn bridges, but don't even SLAM a door when you leave the room. You never know when you might want to walk back though it...

 

[CCDiscoB]

I've learned it is best to not only not burn bridges, but don't even SLAM a door when you leave the room. You never know when you might want to walk back though it...

How true

...as BRAC descends on us and new opportunites open up

Very true also. Many new jobs out there.

 

[Eagleflip]

Albie...Albie..."Nice time killer on layovers, however..."

You do enjoy sleep a lot, don't you?

Man, that stuff put me out like a light. For God's sake, don't try to read it in flight--you'll wind up over the cold dark Atlantic with a stinkin' Viper on your wing trying to wake you up.

Good luck--I actually learned a lot from the course.

I wouldn't worry too much about the updated course and the applicability of the old dirty purples; even though the course changes from time to time, it pays to remember that no course changes 100% from the previous one. They only update about 15 to 20% of the total at best, so the majority of information remains constant.

My most important point? When you get the books, immediately schedule the test. It forces your hand, makes you read (a bit, anyway) and moves you on to the inevitable paper that you'll have to write. Once that's done..."you're a graduate!"

 

[Birdstrike]

I did the Army version but some generalities apply. Here, there is virtually no chance for 06 without it. With it, you're supremely competitive. Also, Albie, consider the wide range of new contacts you'll make, which is another plug for doing it. Keep going up the ladder as far as they'll allow you. When you eventually do retire, an 06 pension check, if you can get there, is significantly larger than an 05's. And an 07 or 08's, well, you get the idea. Hey, they gotta get their general officers from somewhere. Might as well be you if somebody's gotta do it...

 

[Los1]

Albie-
when you find out, will you let me know where the Gou...oops cant say that, the dirty purples are!! i feel exactly like you do as to more that 20. I made O-5 last july and am debating whether or not to continue to "strive"
anyway --
good luck with the process
Los

 

[AlbieF15]

Let's keep pressin', Los...

Less than a year ago I wondering if I would go back to the Eagle after a surgery detour. Spent the last week in Key West...flew 4 4v4s against some F-16s from Homestead every day and had an absolute blast. (Tankers and AWACS also showed up and helped out!) Nights spent steweing on lessons learned and waxing about good times gone by--all over drinks and grub on Duval street. Don't know what the future holds, and more than likely it will eventually look a lot more like a desk or command post than an F-15, but I'll keep going as long as there as there are options. Of course, its a lot easier to remember the good times at Nellis or Key West instead of endless days of boredom and misery deployed to the AOR(s), but there is a sense of satisfaction in the job that is hard to get anywhere else.

Thanks bros...thanks Makos...

 

[Benhuntn]

AWC is a total waste of time. It will keep you away from your kids get you promoted to a job that will keep you away from your kids and fill your head with useless knowledge that has no value in real life. Go watch your kids in their play or sporst game and enjoy them instead. I never met a burner with AWC complete that was worth a damn as a pilot.

 

[Eagleflip]

Lessee Ben...I think you don't know the right folks...

Speedy Martin.
Jack Catton.
K-Mart Kresge.
Mobile Holmes.
Guns Bergeson.
Bede Dickerson....

All great sticks, all AWC by correspondence, and all went to an in-residence school too.

There is alway "more to learn," and while I agree with your priorities, I strongly suggest that learing about history is actually far more important than you state.

Fact is, if you want to play at the upper ranks, you must also play the game. AWC is relatively painless by correspondence. I think somebody of Albie's stature (can read fast and drink slow....wait, is that right?) could make it happen during layovers or inflight.

Have fun Albie--keep playing until you figure out it just isn't fun, then quit.

And you ain't there yet!

 

[AlbieF15]

Please add (and I KNOW its not complete) these to the list...

Tex Merrell
Odie Odegard
Nike Winslow
..and oh yeah....Kid Curry...

I'm one of those those stupid captains who's name is actually mentioned in the same sentence with "IPUG" who is starting to think he knows something. Did a fight/tank/fight BFM hop over the South China Sea with Kid, who was our OG or deputy OG at the time. I spent about 45 minutes of engaged time that day just getting my a$$ absolutely kicked. He was the first guy I'd seen do a lot of high/loaded AOA/rudder type stuff, and he used the question mark above my canopy that day as an aiming reference.

Maybe different in some communities...but in mine I fear the old O-6 or O-5 a LOT more than the typical O-3. Not saying there aren't some great young guns out there, but the "young pretty fighter pilot" shows up in Hollywood a lot more than the squadron. While I've seen the "attached" old guy who maybe didn't still have his "A" game, I've also seen a lot of 2000-3000 hour guys who simply delighted in watching the smirk the captain had at step time disappear as he sees his own jet in another guys HUD during tape review.

Stay humble---never quit learning--respect your elders....that's all I'm saying...

 

[Jeeves]

Meanwhile back at the thread.....I'm currently AD USN, I did my JPME thru ACSC via correspondence and if AWC programs are anything like that, go with correspondence versus going there!!! [Side note: I started the NWC version of JPME before this---Good God, run away. Way too much effort and reading during an operational tour! AF trimmed the BS down to the Cliff Notes, realizing you actually have a job when you take a correspondence course!] A multiple choice test at the end of 6 units and I was done. Much more gentle than 8 hrs a day in a classroom. Done on my own time. Mildly interesting at times too.

 

[RampFreeze]

Don't compare in-residence PME with correspondence - They are apples and oranges. Correspondence is strictly there to tick the box in the quickest manner possible. (As Seinfeld would say – “Not that there is anything wrong with that”) However, in the USAF, having gone to school in-residence puts you up much higher on the food chain when it comes to promotions, etc . if you are looking for that. (Yes, I'll join Albie as a card-carrying member of the "never-say-never club" - I too have eaten my words)

Now, if you have any chance of going to school in residence - DO IT! (another thing I thought I'd never say and honestly, still can't believe I'm saying it) I’m not saying that for the professional development reasons, I’d much rather fly airplanes. I’m saying it simply for the personal ones. If for no other reason, it is a year-long paid vacation. Jeeves has got it all wrong and obviously has not been to the Naval War College in-residence, I have. The most important phrase to keep in mind is that "it is only a lot of reading if you choose to do it!" Here is the deal, on day one the Admiral stands up in front of the new class and says, “We realize you all are coming from assignments filled with frequent deployments and/or staff jobs that have had you chained to a desk for 12+ hours a day. This is your year to get to know your family again.” I don’t care what your job is (civil/guard/reserve or active duty) you will never have another opportunity like this. (to get paid top dollar to sit around and relax for a year – no cell phone, no e-mail, no living in a tent, etc.) At least at the NWC, it truly is a paid vacation. (and you don’t talk about boats, just National Security, etc. That’s why any of the schools are as good as the one from your service)

Here is/was a typical schedule at the Naval War College: Class four times per week from 0830-1145 and one day per week (either weds or thurs) also from 1330-1630. Fridays are usually “Study Days/Academic Prep” Now, if you want, there is a lot of reading to fill up all the rest of your day, but once again “It is only a lot of reading if you choose to do it.” Or, you can do what I did and take up sailing.

As a USAF guy, I could go on for hours about why the Navy school in Newport, RI is the best of any of them, but it is my only data point and this is already long enough. I do get the feeling that the other schools are not as “user friendly” but still are a good deal. Bottom Line: If you want a year-long paid vacation – go to school in-residence.