Air Tran or CAL? haven't we been here before?

[imadumbpilot]

Alright I know I've seen similar threads in the past, I generally don't read them so I am posing the question again.

I work for Continental, '99 hire. I have a good friend who is supposed to start class at Air tran on the 28th, and wouldn't you know it! He gets a call from CAL for an interview after he starts class at Air Tran.

I personally would choose CAL, but I don't think that is an unbiased opinion. I know very little about Air Tran. Any thoughts from some of you aviation experts out there on what you would do.

Again, I think he'd be better off a Continental, but much of that is based on my ignorance of Air Tran.


Ok, discuss.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

If he lives in ATL...I would say airtran.

Otherwise I submit my vote for CAL.

 

[Socalplt]

Well, I don't work for either company, but in my quest for knowledge on possible jobs in the future here is some information.

Beyond the obvious pay, domiciles, etc.

Airtran will only retire approximately 150 pilots out of 1300 over the next 10 years. At the same time Continental will retire around 2300 of 4700. Airtran currently has approximately 115 aircraft with an additional 80-100 coming in the next five years+. I'd guess that would push the seniority list out to 2200-2500 pilots assuming they don't park any airplanes. I'd also imagine anyone getting hired to day wouldn't upgraded for at least 5 years as opposed the previous 2-3 years. If Airtran pulls a Jetblue and starts defering delieveries it might run even longer.

Continental still seems to be growing the fleet, but currently has nowhere near has many aircraft on order as Airtran. Hired today you wouldn't be halfway up the seniority list for 10-12 years. However, during that time Widebody FO on the 767, 777, and soon the 787 would be available. CO pay on those aircraft at year 5+ is comparable to Airtran captain pay at this point.

Of course all this may mean nothing with a UA/CO merger, another terrorist attack, or oil at $200/barrel. I'd pick CO myself. I've sworn off commuting and would rather move to a CO domicile opposed to ATL.

 

[scotts]

Can he do the interview while in class at Airtran? If not, consider that a job at Airtran is better then an interview at CAL.

 

[Lear70]

Airtran will only retire approximately 150 pilots out of 1300 over the next 10 years. At the same time Continental will retire around 2300 of 4700.

Actually, it looks like close to 100 retirements within the next 5 years at airTran, not 10.

Airtran currently has approximately 115 aircraft with an additional 80-100 coming in the next five years+.

Management is already talking with Boeing and others about a 717 replacement aircraft AND a larger 737 replacement, as well as management being quoted saying, "If you stop growing, you start dying", so don't expect them to slow down growth anytime soon. My bet would be on MORE aircraft than that additional 100 in the next 5 with continued growth as well.

I'd guess that would push the seniority list out to 2200-2500 pilots assuming they don't park any airplanes.

Correct, that's probably a good guess for how many people on property in about 5 years.

I'd also imagine anyone getting hired to day wouldn't upgraded for at least 5 years as opposed the previous 2-3 years. If Airtran pulls a Jetblue and starts defering delieveries it might run even longer.

airTran definitely won't be "pulling a jetBlue", we're probably going to post profitable quarters and years for quite a while yet to come, no reason to defer deliveries, I think they'd ACCELERATE THEM if they thought operationally they could get away with it.

HOWEVER, the upgrade time is a little off. Right now, because upgrades are slated to continue for the foreseeable future, many senior F/O's are putting off upgrade for YEARS. I just flew with 2 Captains on my last trip that JUST upgraded and are at year 5 and 7 respectively.

There's a few other things that will lower the upgrade time as well, but for people hired THIS YEAR, upgrade looks to be about 3 to 3 1/2 years.

Continental still seems to be growing the fleet, but currently has nowhere near has many aircraft on order as Airtran. Hired today you wouldn't be halfway up the seniority list for 10-12 years. However, during that time Widebody FO on the 767, 777, and soon the 787 would be available. CO pay on those aircraft at year 5+ is comparable to Airtran captain pay at this point.

Yup. The problem is the 1st year new-hire pay is abyssmal at CAL and 2nd year isn't that much better, even on the widebody fleet. It would take you almost all 10 years at CAL to catch up with the airTran pay. After that though, CAL has MUCH better pay, hands-down and is the clear-cut career pay winner.

Add to that the possibility of flying long-haul international flights which, more than likely, won't EVER happen at airTran (or at least not in my career life expectancy), and CAL becomes pretty attractive IF you had the choice WHEN YOU STARTED at airTran or within the first few years.

Of course all this may mean nothing with a UA/CO merger, another terrorist attack, or oil at $200/barrel. I'd pick CO myself. I've sworn off commuting and would rather move to a CO domicile opposed to ATL.

Heh heh, get too many more meltdowns like we've had the last few nights in ATL and you MIGHT see another domicile than ATL here. There's OBVIOUSLY too many planes for not enough gates and MORE airplanes on the way...

Other than that, IF you had the choice when you got hired, CAL might be a better one for your OVERALL career, although VERY difficult the first year. I don't think I could afford it...

Then again, I like it here. Quick upgrade = more money sooner to invest, plus hopefully more $$ after contract means able to bid more days off to go VACATION in those international spots rather than just lay over. Besides, I LIKE doing 3 or 4 short legs, keeps me busy and the day passes faster 'til I get to the overnight (most of our overnights are 14-16 hours on the 717) than if I had to sit and twiddle my thumbs for 4-7+ hours.

Different stroke for different folks and all that. Good luck to him!

p.s. There are lots of opportunities during training to get out of ATL to do an interview, providing an interview is on a Monday or Friday, especially when you get done with aircraft initial ground training (5 weeks after class starts).

Other than that, class is pure M-F 8 to 5 for the first 2 weeks then a VPT (Visual Procedures Trainer) or FMS-T (FMS Training) session for 4 hours followed by self-study computer lab pretty much EVERY day, so it's difficult to go anywhere during the week until sims start.

 

[cl65capt]

Alright I know I've seen similar threads in the past, I generally don't read them so I am posing the question again.

I work for Continental, '99 hire. I have a good friend who is supposed to start class at Air tran on the 28th, and wouldn't you know it! He gets a call from CAL for an interview after he starts class at Air Tran.

I personally would choose CAL, but I don't think that is an unbiased opinion. I know very little about Air Tran. Any thoughts from some of you aviation experts out there on what you would do.

Again, I think he'd be better off a Continental, but much of that is based on my ignorance of Air Tran.


Ok, discuss.

Just curious, who does your friend work for now?

 

[Ty Webb]

Try to get IAHERJ via a PM. He left AirTran for Continental, so he could probably give you the lowdown on both.

 

[FlyAuburn]

CAL !!!!!!!!!!! I know a dude that is thinking about leaving FL for CAL and he lives in ATL. Ouch...
Good culture at CAL.

 

[Whataburger]

Push the AirTran class back a month, go interview at CAL, then start at AirTran. Then if you get hired at CAL, you have a decision to make.

 

[GreatView]

In the long run, CAL will be the best bet. They are KNOWN in the industry as leaders who think "outside of the box". JD Powers and others always rate them tops in customer satisfaction. If your customers are happy, it's only because the employees are happy.

Another point on why I think CAL is better.....

The company is and has been profitable (relatively) and their contract is ammendable in 2008. It may take 10 yrs now to make as much as an AT pilot under the current contract, but that probably won't be the case in a couple of years...