stillflyn
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What they really teach at the AF Academyhttp://www.glumbert.com/media/dancewhiteboy.html
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Air Force Academy
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Sgt. Hartman
What do we get for $10?
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AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
Nice to see the Academy training "mutual support" so early. Nothing like blowing off some steam in a harmless fashion only to have your roommate try to set you up for future embarrassment and humiliation on the internet! What a good bro!
Just like when a few years ago when a bunch decided to hide in a closet and watch a male and female cadet "go at it" a bit, that place seems to breed a lot of immaturity and sexual disfunction.
I understand that when pilot slots are hard to find, a fellow has to do what he has to do. I also understand the AFA is funded so those kids who go are relieving a huge financial burden on their parents. However, I stand behind the thesis that taking 18-22 year old young adults, stressing the heck of out them and making them live in close proximity for months at time, and further reminding them that any "relations" between male and female cadets is against the rules, is borderline un-natural.
Everyone's got a right to an opinion...and that's all mine is. But in my perfect world, the "spy" with the camera would be horse-whipped for being a jerk, and the other geeky dancer would be better served at a large school in AFROTC or whatever and would disapate a lot of that extra energy chasing tail after class and on the weekends. Then again--I almost got booted from AFROTC, so maybe I'm just not real military material.
Just like when a few years ago when a bunch decided to hide in a closet and watch a male and female cadet "go at it" a bit, that place seems to breed a lot of immaturity and sexual disfunction.
I understand that when pilot slots are hard to find, a fellow has to do what he has to do. I also understand the AFA is funded so those kids who go are relieving a huge financial burden on their parents. However, I stand behind the thesis that taking 18-22 year old young adults, stressing the heck of out them and making them live in close proximity for months at time, and further reminding them that any "relations" between male and female cadets is against the rules, is borderline un-natural.
Everyone's got a right to an opinion...and that's all mine is. But in my perfect world, the "spy" with the camera would be horse-whipped for being a jerk, and the other geeky dancer would be better served at a large school in AFROTC or whatever and would disapate a lot of that extra energy chasing tail after class and on the weekends. Then again--I almost got booted from AFROTC, so maybe I'm just not real military material.
skykid
On Point
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2002
- Posts
- 759
Albie, you couldn't be further from right. The discipline learned there has carried over and is the key to my marriage. In fact, I disciplined my wife this morning. Love, through discipline, couldn't be more natural.
AND, call him a geeky dancer if you want, but that was pretty good stuff. I guess you haven't seen Napoleon dynamite yet. Well, it's a true story, and Napoleon pulls off a major high school election upset with worse dancing than that. So think about it.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
They probably dance a lot better at Empty Nipple. Atleast there are some babes nearby at the beach in Daytona. The guys at the Academy have to search for dates at "Herpe High" next door. With those dance moves, I bet all of the freshmen and sophmores at the nearby highschool can't wait to "get a piece".
Bye Bye---General Lee
Bye Bye---General Lee
Last edited:
FastCargo
Is that the tanker?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 240
Zoombags..
As a graduate of the Colorado School for Wayward Children, I'll say the following...
Personally, I hated the place, hated Colorado Springs, and hated Colorado in general (being from Florida...a beach only 15 minutes away on average). As I got away from the Academy, I found my hatred was all focused on the Academy, and just sort of bled over to the state. Though I wouldn't want to live in CS, Colorado itself I've been back to many times and I think it's very nice. Couldn't handle the bitter cold though. As I've gotten older, I've come up with some observations.
First of all, Albie is right to an extent, you have to remember that though it's a military academy, it's still filled with hormone overloaded teenagers...ie it's still a college in terms of general population. The kind of stuff that goes on there goes on at other colleges (look at filming porn movies on campus, Girls Gone Wild, etc). The difference is that we don't expect that kind of behavior at a military academy. Because military academies by their very nature try to produce a homogenious group, 'different' behavior only stands out more.
There are problems with this kind of setup of course. There are not the normal outlets for 'blowing off steam' that exist at a regular college. Also, students at USAFA don't learn nearly the amount of 'real world' experience that their regular college friends may learn (balancing work, school, social, etc). Also, if a person has serious control issues, the USAFA will tend to enhance them in the long run.
However, it has positive effects as well. First, you learn early to be able to laugh at the absurd. Secondly, discipline...not for you S & M types, but stuff that will help you later on. I was a prime example...high school was EASY for me, didn't study, have to work hard, etc. The USAFA changed that in a hurry, where I learned priorization, organizing, not procrastinating, etc. Finally, you make friends for life, sort of the 'shared adversity' thing. It's like a really big fraternity, talking (and complaining) how much the 'zoo' as changed, stupid cadet tricks, etc.
Of course, there are the practical benefits. Full scholarship including room, board, textbooks, meals, etc. Guaranteed job when you graduate. Fairly well rounded education. Some of the other benefits no longer exist though. All commissions are reserve now (not that I could ever figure out exactly what the difference was), and pilot slots are now order of merit based (ie just because you are medically qualified doesn't give you a pilot slot).
I think what has happened is that the pool of potental applicants has gotten smaller over time. That in combination has resulted in a 'broading of the spectrum' of criteria for qualification (casting a wider net). Personally, I think the average quality of applicant has gone down because of it. I would have been happier to have smaller class sizes but keep the same quality.
Finally, performance at the USAFA has absolutely no relavance to how a person does in the real world. One classmate of mine in particular was ALWAYS in trouble with 'the man', threatening not to graduate him one time in particular. He now is an F-15E Weapons School Instructor (last I heard) and is considered one of the best pilots in the F-15E. Heck, I graduated by the skin of my teeth (I was kind of an academic rock) but I've done okay, if not exactly spectactular.
So, what's my point? College kids do stupid stuff, no matter where they go to school. As a grad, I just laugh at it for the most part. Considering what I hear about in 'real' schools, most of it seems pretty tame in fact.
FastCargo
As a graduate of the Colorado School for Wayward Children, I'll say the following...
Personally, I hated the place, hated Colorado Springs, and hated Colorado in general (being from Florida...a beach only 15 minutes away on average). As I got away from the Academy, I found my hatred was all focused on the Academy, and just sort of bled over to the state. Though I wouldn't want to live in CS, Colorado itself I've been back to many times and I think it's very nice. Couldn't handle the bitter cold though. As I've gotten older, I've come up with some observations.
First of all, Albie is right to an extent, you have to remember that though it's a military academy, it's still filled with hormone overloaded teenagers...ie it's still a college in terms of general population. The kind of stuff that goes on there goes on at other colleges (look at filming porn movies on campus, Girls Gone Wild, etc). The difference is that we don't expect that kind of behavior at a military academy. Because military academies by their very nature try to produce a homogenious group, 'different' behavior only stands out more.
There are problems with this kind of setup of course. There are not the normal outlets for 'blowing off steam' that exist at a regular college. Also, students at USAFA don't learn nearly the amount of 'real world' experience that their regular college friends may learn (balancing work, school, social, etc). Also, if a person has serious control issues, the USAFA will tend to enhance them in the long run.
However, it has positive effects as well. First, you learn early to be able to laugh at the absurd. Secondly, discipline...not for you S & M types, but stuff that will help you later on. I was a prime example...high school was EASY for me, didn't study, have to work hard, etc. The USAFA changed that in a hurry, where I learned priorization, organizing, not procrastinating, etc. Finally, you make friends for life, sort of the 'shared adversity' thing. It's like a really big fraternity, talking (and complaining) how much the 'zoo' as changed, stupid cadet tricks, etc.
Of course, there are the practical benefits. Full scholarship including room, board, textbooks, meals, etc. Guaranteed job when you graduate. Fairly well rounded education. Some of the other benefits no longer exist though. All commissions are reserve now (not that I could ever figure out exactly what the difference was), and pilot slots are now order of merit based (ie just because you are medically qualified doesn't give you a pilot slot).
I think what has happened is that the pool of potental applicants has gotten smaller over time. That in combination has resulted in a 'broading of the spectrum' of criteria for qualification (casting a wider net). Personally, I think the average quality of applicant has gone down because of it. I would have been happier to have smaller class sizes but keep the same quality.
Finally, performance at the USAFA has absolutely no relavance to how a person does in the real world. One classmate of mine in particular was ALWAYS in trouble with 'the man', threatening not to graduate him one time in particular. He now is an F-15E Weapons School Instructor (last I heard) and is considered one of the best pilots in the F-15E. Heck, I graduated by the skin of my teeth (I was kind of an academic rock) but I've done okay, if not exactly spectactular.
So, what's my point? College kids do stupid stuff, no matter where they go to school. As a grad, I just laugh at it for the most part. Considering what I hear about in 'real' schools, most of it seems pretty tame in fact.
FastCargo
Albie, you're kidding right? I'm not a Zoomie, but do you really think immaturity and sexual antics are unique to military academy's? I recently spent four years living in Madison, Wisconsin. Stuff that goes on at UW on an hourly basis was enough to curl my toes, and I've been around the block a few times. And as far as forcing 18-22 year olds to live in a cramped and stressful environment...it is a military school. Take a look at any base in Iraq right now.
Look at it as FedEx lead in training. Cramming 3 guys into a noisy, hot, cramped environment, feeding them poor quality food and depriving them of effective sleep all while expecting them to remain cheerful and cooperative doesn't seem that unusual.
Look at it as FedEx lead in training. Cramming 3 guys into a noisy, hot, cramped environment, feeding them poor quality food and depriving them of effective sleep all while expecting them to remain cheerful and cooperative doesn't seem that unusual.
KC-10 Driver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2002
- Posts
- 503
AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
...you guys know my standard disclaimer..."I'm just a fighter pilot, and I may be wrong..."
My college experience was probably way atypical. I had parents who footed the bill for tuition and books. I worked during school and made enough extra for a nice apartment that had 2 bedrooms and 2 baths, so if my roomie and I both had "guests" we had plenty of privacy. If I thought the hoodoo gurus latest hit on college radio required me dancing naked in my room, I was reasonable sure I wasn't being video taped. I flew as a CFI my junior and senior year and did some instruction for the university, and I had another job as a party photographer, so while I was "working my way through school" I won't tell you that I was exactly breaking rocks in the hot noonday sun. It was work however, and it required (as Fast Cargo eloquently put) a certai amount of balance and time management. So...I never had to live in such a rigid environment. I also could do lots of dumb stuff without worrying about my "bro" ratting me out on the internet. I chased a lot of girls, managed to catch a (very) few, tried a bunch of new hobbies and interests, and generally had an awesome time in college. My post was just a reflection that I felt a bit sorry for the dude on the tape. In my mind, his life stinks. He's marching everywhere, in a high stress environment, and (probably) doesn't have a girlfriend, and in his 10 minutes of free time during a long 15 hour day his roomie (likely a trusted friend) is hanging him out to dry and trying to embarrass him for being "different" than the 1000 other clones in his class. Maybe he's happier at the AFA than anywhere else on earth, and eats this stuff up...who am I to say?
With regard to comments about "this happens at other universities too..." I agree. That is exactly why I moved off campus into my own apartment 88 days after freshman orientation and placement into Magnolia dorm at Auburn. (Most old guys who know AU know what a dump that was, and that is was mercifully condemed in the late 80s..) The difference between the poor guy who gets the occassional dorm prank pulled is he/she knows they have the option to move out if they can afford it. In a military academy, I believe you pretty much get stuck with a roomie for 4 years...although you will later get some choice in who that roomie is.
Like I said...I may be wrong. I never got to watch the sunset over Pike's peak after a long day of parachuting or soaring. The AFA offers many people the opportunity of a lifetime. One of my very best friends in the world is about to take over an Eagle squadron as CC in England next month, and he loved his academy experience. Its a fantastic experience for some guys (and gals). However, it ain't for everyone. All I am saying is that I feel sorry for the dude in the video, as he thinks he has 10 minutes to himself and is letting off some steam, and the fact is his bro is stabbing him in the back at that very moment.
I do, however, bow to to a few of those moves. This guy may be the next American Idol contestant compared to what I could pull off...
My college experience was probably way atypical. I had parents who footed the bill for tuition and books. I worked during school and made enough extra for a nice apartment that had 2 bedrooms and 2 baths, so if my roomie and I both had "guests" we had plenty of privacy. If I thought the hoodoo gurus latest hit on college radio required me dancing naked in my room, I was reasonable sure I wasn't being video taped. I flew as a CFI my junior and senior year and did some instruction for the university, and I had another job as a party photographer, so while I was "working my way through school" I won't tell you that I was exactly breaking rocks in the hot noonday sun. It was work however, and it required (as Fast Cargo eloquently put) a certai amount of balance and time management. So...I never had to live in such a rigid environment. I also could do lots of dumb stuff without worrying about my "bro" ratting me out on the internet. I chased a lot of girls, managed to catch a (very) few, tried a bunch of new hobbies and interests, and generally had an awesome time in college. My post was just a reflection that I felt a bit sorry for the dude on the tape. In my mind, his life stinks. He's marching everywhere, in a high stress environment, and (probably) doesn't have a girlfriend, and in his 10 minutes of free time during a long 15 hour day his roomie (likely a trusted friend) is hanging him out to dry and trying to embarrass him for being "different" than the 1000 other clones in his class. Maybe he's happier at the AFA than anywhere else on earth, and eats this stuff up...who am I to say?
With regard to comments about "this happens at other universities too..." I agree. That is exactly why I moved off campus into my own apartment 88 days after freshman orientation and placement into Magnolia dorm at Auburn. (Most old guys who know AU know what a dump that was, and that is was mercifully condemed in the late 80s..) The difference between the poor guy who gets the occassional dorm prank pulled is he/she knows they have the option to move out if they can afford it. In a military academy, I believe you pretty much get stuck with a roomie for 4 years...although you will later get some choice in who that roomie is.
Like I said...I may be wrong. I never got to watch the sunset over Pike's peak after a long day of parachuting or soaring. The AFA offers many people the opportunity of a lifetime. One of my very best friends in the world is about to take over an Eagle squadron as CC in England next month, and he loved his academy experience. Its a fantastic experience for some guys (and gals). However, it ain't for everyone. All I am saying is that I feel sorry for the dude in the video, as he thinks he has 10 minutes to himself and is letting off some steam, and the fact is his bro is stabbing him in the back at that very moment.
I do, however, bow to to a few of those moves. This guy may be the next American Idol contestant compared to what I could pull off...
It makes me remember how crazy that place could make you. Gotta love USAFA!
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