Air Force Academy Question

[reido737]

Hello, Wonder if someone can answer a question or two for me. My nephew wants to go to the Academy. In his state there were 50 people that were looking for a letter from their congressmen, only 5 were given letters of which he was one of them. What happens now, What is the process from here?? Thanks.

 

[DUATS]

I can tell you the Naval Academy process - I assume USAFA is similar. Each member of Congress plus some others can give up to 10 nominations, less number of nominees currently at the Academy. That's like 5,000 for each academy - but each admits only about 1,500 (with about 1,200 actually showing up). Your nephew has no doubt started the application process. At Navy it includes a physical agility test, a real pain-in-the-neck physical exam, letters of recommendation from at least two current teachers, an interview with a Naval officer who volunteers to assist with Academy recruiting (I did this for ten years), and of course your standard college application. What they really are looking for is leadership experience: team captain, Eagle scout, student body president stuff.

It's a long process, but worth it. The education of a midshipman or cadet costs the taxpayers about $350,000 - best education money can't buy!

Feel free to PM if you found this helpful and have more questions.

 

[pilotyip]

I have worked with graduates from all three academies. I do not believe there is a better way to position yourself for future success in any field you elect to pursue. A second route to pursue for your child is the ROTC scholarship program, if competitive for an academy, you are competitive for ROTC, apply for all services and take the one you want if you have choice.

Kinda fits so I will share it. Congratulations on your hopefully upcoming selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming an officer is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I'd be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself "Which one am I more likely to thrive in?"

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogeneous and macro. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.

Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your ass until you become a lethal force. Yes, the Naval Aviator is the best trained and most potent weapon in the sky. He thinks independently, and very few are in his club. And some days when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. And, the hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore .

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask.....pack warm and good luck in Colorado

 

[DUATS]

Yip has articulated his OPINION about two of our services quite well. The only factual error I will correct is that the Navy will not accept candidates at any level with criminal convictions. During periods of high unemployment (like now) the military becomes incredibly selective - because they can be. I talked to an enlisted Marine recruiter recently. he told me that right now they will not take a kid with more than one speeding ticket! No GED's, no past drug use, no "problem children" need apply. The Navy is even pickier.

My personal experience includes a nephew who went AFROTC. He didn't get into the flight program, and spent four years as an intel officer. He traveled extensively - but never deployed for more than four months. He received excellent training and got a good job after he left the service. My son went to the Naval Academy (one of the smartest decisions he ever made!), selected Marine Corp Aviation and has logged almost 2,000 hours of C-130 time. He will be staying for his 20+ years and taking the pension.

I've been in the Navy Reserve for 20 years, and have seen many good sailors of all ranks. There have been a few turds along the way - but they don't last long in today's Navy. With high year tenure and Perform to Serve, they get sent home. One positive drug test: out. Three physical fitness failures: out. Do your job well, serve your country and your fellow sailors, and you will have a great career.

All of the Academies are a great deal for the right student. I will not bash Air Force (except this year's football team; how did you lose to ARMY?). But four years at Annapolis is a great way to start.

 

[pilotyip]

Yip has articulated his OPINION about two of our services quite well. The only factual error I will correct is that the Navy will not accept candidates at any level with criminal convictions. During periods of high unemployment (like now) the military becomes incredibly selective - because they can be. I talked to an enlisted Marine recruiter recently. he told me that right now they will not take a kid with more than one speeding ticket! No GED's, no past drug use, no "problem children" need apply. The Navy is even pickier.

My personal experience includes a nephew who went AFROTC. He didn't get into the flight program, and spent four years as an intel officer. He traveled extensively - but never deployed for more than four months. He received excellent training and got a good job after he left the service. My son went to the Naval Academy (one of the smartest decisions he ever made!), selected Marine Corp Aviation and has logged almost 2,000 hours of C-130 time. He will be staying for his 20+ years and taking the pension.

I've been in the Navy Reserve for 20 years, and have seen many good sailors of all ranks. There have been a few turds along the way - but they don't last long in today's Navy. With high year tenure and Perform to Serve, they get sent home. One positive drug test: out. Three physical fitness failures: out. Do your job well, serve your country and your fellow sailors, and you will have a great career.

All of the Academies are a great deal for the right student. I will not bash Air Force (except this year's football team; how did you lose to ARMY?). But four years at Annapolis is a great way to start.

That is an old post. But I was a Navy Recruiter during the early 70's. We were almost across the street from the City Jail. We would get those kids that were given the choice by the judge, "Join the Service or go to jail" We had to do wavier interviews, some were OK kids who made a mistake like shop lifting cigarettes, I normally recommended a second chance for those kids. Then there were guys I could not imagine having in my Division, but sometimes to make Quota the District would over ride the recommendations. I had to work with some of those troubled kids. To think I might have made a difference a kid's life and he would become a productive member society has to be one of the most rewarding experiences in my career.

 

[DUATS]

That is an old post. But I was a Navy Recruiter during the early 70's. We were almost across the street from the City Jail. We would get those kids that were given the choice by the judge, "Join the Service or go to jail" We had to do wavier interviews, some were OK kids who made a mistake like shop lifting cigarettes, I normally recommended a second chance for those kids. Then there were guys I could not imagine having in my Division, but sometimes to make Quota the District would over ride the recommendations. I had to work with some of those troubled kids. To think I might have made a difference a kid's life and he would become a productive member society has to be one of the most rewarding experiences in my career.

Good point. Today, quota is not an issue for most of the recruiters. It really is a shame that the best kids only consider the military because other options are few. But this recession means we have been getting great recruits for the last five years. That will help keep all the branches of the service strong for the next 20 years +.

 

[pilotyip]

Good point. Today, quota is not an issue for most of the recruiters. It really is a shame that the best kids only consider the military because other options are few. But this recession means we have been getting great recruits for the last five years. That will help keep all the branches of the service strong for the next 20 years +.

Only if they can get their stuff together budget wise. The wars are almost over. The Navy last spring instituted this reduction to bring numbers in line with mandated headcount numbers. Now they are short of people and asking some of the people involuntarily separated if they want to come back in. Having lived through the headcount blood letting after the Vietnam War, were RIF's/Fail to promote, busting in ranks were a way of life, you learn that the military is a very fickle employer. After 11 years, I got out in 1977 because I could not get a flying assignment, and found a Reserve Squadron flying P-3's. A year later they are offering me promotion, regular commission back, and Wing of my choice if I will back on active duty. But I had just been hired by TransAmerican Airlines where the DO told us in ground school everyone in this room will be a 747 Captain making $100K/yr in five years.

 

[JimNtexas]

Air Force ROTC paid my way through the University of Texas (Hook'em!). AFROTC was a great course in its own right, I really benefited from the emphases on learning to speak and write at a profesional level.

The Air Force Academy wasn't for me, but its a great place for folks who can live with such a high degree of micro-management for four years.

The caliber of the many AFA grads I've known is universally very high.

 

[Turtle21]

Hello, Wonder if someone can answer a question or two for me. My nephew wants to go to the Academy. In his state there were 50 people that were looking for a letter from their congressmen, only 5 were given letters of which he was one of them. What happens now, What is the process from here?? Thanks.

By "letter" I take it you mean a "nomination". If your nephew received a nomination from a congressman that is a good sign, as the process for that is very competitive, and a nomination is required to have a shot at the "appointment" (Appointment being the goal line).

In addition to applying to his congressman to seek his nomination, he has also applied directly to the Academy. The Academy racks and stacks all the candidates by their demonstrated leadership, academic, and athletic skills. His Academy Liaison and Admissions Counselor should be helping him through the very arduous application process (if he hasn't finished all the requirements then he needs to pronto). The selection boards will continue to rack and stack all the candidates with completed applications. Those above the cut line, and also with nominations, will be offered appointments for entrance into the next cadet class this coming summer. Appointments may be offered from now until the day of entrance.

Best of luck to him!

 

[Boxboy]

Talk to his ALO (Admissions Liason Officer) and he/she will be able to help your nephew out. That's their job.
To answer your question, he will have to try for next year if he still wants to pursue the USAFA. The USAFA is only accepting just over 1,000 cadets per year (down from previous years) and the competition is extremely stiff. I've seen plenty of well qualified candidates not get in. I hate to say this but unless you are a minority or a blue chip athlete (stilll need decent grades and SAT/ACT scores), you have to be an extremely stellar and well rounded student, as someone has stated earlier (team captain, class president/officer, excellent GPA/SAT or ACT, community service, outgoing leadership, etc.). Ass kissing skills will come in handy too if you want to make O-6 or better.
In the meantime, have him join AFROTC at a university. I believe there isn't a commitment for the first 2 years of ROTC (freshmen and sophomore). If he will be attending a junior college, he can still join AFROTC at a university that offers the program. Back in the day, they were called "cross towners". If he still wants to attend the academy, he can apply and go through the same process.
The military acadamies are absolutely top notch. The education is on par with any top notch/Ivy league school and it's all on Uncle Sam(about $450,000). Not only will he get one heck of an education, he will receive invaluable training and experience like no other. Having said this, your nephew REALLY needs to want to go there baaaaad. It's definitely not for everyone. I suggest that everyone looking at the academies do a thorough and honest evaluation of themselves.
ROTC is a good compromise for someone who wants to be an officer but also wants to experience the "college life". There are different scholarships out there, though still pretty competetive.
Whatever he decides, I wish him success!

 

[dragontamer]

Some good advice above. My son is a freshman at USAFA. serviceacademyforums.com was a huge help on the heinous process of applying and all questions about the academies.

 

[Scrapdog]

Gold will shine in 99!

 

[airplane wizard]

Some good advice above. My son is a freshman at USAFA. serviceacademyforums.com was a huge help on the heinous process of applying and all questions about the academies.

Do you "pick a major" at the academies, or do they train you in what they need at the time?

 

[OrionFE]

Naval Academy

I am a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer (22 yrs) and I just took my youngest son to tour the Naval Academy this past week. What an awesome experience. He wants to be a Marine very badley and has been in the Young Marines for about 2 years now. He is a sophmore in HS and that tour of the Naval Academy really sparked his motivation. He is interested in the Aviation career field. I hope to see him as a Midshipman in a couple of years.

ADC (ret)

 

[Andy]

Let me toss in another route to an Academy appointment ... the service academy prep schools. All three Academies have prep schools. The AFA and West Point prep schools are located on Academy grounds; the Naval Academy prep school is located in Newport, RI.

I was prior enlisted and spent a year at the AFA prep school for my AFA appointment. Well worth the year spent.
Northwestern Prepatory School in CA (and I'm sure there are others) is specifically designed to get their grads into service academies, so that's another option. Tuition is just under $9k.

I've never been an ALO; you might want to ask the ALO if prep school is a possibility if it doesn't look like your nephew won't get a direct appointment.

 

[Falconjet]

I would like to point out that there are 4 service academies.

FJ

 

[Andy]

I would like to point out that there are 4 service academies.

FJ

Not to be picky, but there are 5.
West Point
Naval Academy
Air Force Academy
Coast Guard Academy
Merchant Marine Academy

 

[Falconjet]

Well if you count Kings Point, you are heading into the private, have to pay your own way arena, a slightly different animal, and might need to add the Citadel as well (and probably some others). But again, we don't want to pick nits.

Hope you are well Andy. Its been a long 5 years.

FJ

 

[Andy]

FJ, the MMA is paid for by the Federal Govt and you get there through a Congressional nomination. Same process as the other service academies.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine_Academy

On a personal note, I've had a few setbacks but it is what it is. Hope all is well with you.

 

[C-17 Driver]

There are also scholarships provided by the Falcon Foundation which is sponsored by a bunch of retired generals. These scholarships are offered to those applicants that just missed the cutoff for appointments. The recipients can go to one of several military schools around the nation to include Valley Forge, Northwestern, Marion Military Institute.

When I applied in 1991, I had all the boxes checked (Eagle Scout, varsity athletics, strong SAT score, National Honor Society, congressional nomination, etc), but I still did not receive an appointment. I had all but given up because I was also turned down for AFROTC, NROTC, and the Coast Guard Academy. Being a white male in 1991 during the post cold war drawdown may have had some disadvantages.

I got the Falcon Foundation information in the mail and just threw it in the trash. My dad (a retired AF Lt Col Vietnam Vet) saw the USAFA logo on the brochure and fished it out of the trash, read it and asked if I had read it. I replied that I hadn't and he strongly recommended I read it. I made a phone call to the Valley Forge Military College admissions department and they invited me for a visit. I reluctantly accepted with the idea that I would only visit the school to appease my dad. I was pretty beat down from the multiple rejections.

Well, the visit was going well and I was still not convinced until I sat down with the admissions department and they said their record of USAFA appointments from those who attended under the Falcon Foundation scholarship was 99%! That statistic was enough to give me the motivation to give it one more try.

It was a grueling year. Things were different 20 years ago and there was not much "adult supervision" after work hours and the upperclassmen or "Old Men" were not limited to the types of "military training" they could subject us to. Needless to say, I grew up a lot that year. However, it was worth it when I, along with my 15 plebe brothers were all offered appointments to the class of 1996.

Yes, it still stings a little bit from being rejected from USAFA/AFROTC/NROTC/USCGA because to this day, I do not know why I was not considered. Other than my attendance at Valley Forge for a year, my record was not much different. However, I have no regrets. It gave me an additional year to "grow up" that I needed. It gave me 15 close friends that I went through hell with that I could lean on during my time at USAFA.

So, if there is a takeaway from my experience, is to not give up. There are many paths to a Service Academy. Some paths are more rugged than others, but the destination is the same.

To this day, I still thank my dad for eyeing that brochure in the trash and demanding I take a look at it.

Here is the link to the Falcon Foundation: http://www.usafa.org/falconfoundation

Good luck. I hope my experience can help.

 

[Scrapdog]

I'm a 99 grad. Tough 4 years but well worth it. As time passes on, I'm more and more proud I graduated from USAFA and am part of the long blue line.

 

[Falconjet]

Andy: I am doing well, thanks.

I actually called Kings Point after searching their website for info to talk to the admissions office about how to apply, having a child about to start applying to college and wondering if it might be a possibility for her.

I learned a bunch, and I was incorrect about the funding, but there are some significant differences between Kings Point and the other Academies.

Admission to Kings Point does require an appointment and the cadets are eventually inducted into the inactive Navy Reserve during their plebe year. They receive no stipend or pay. After their junior year they are obligated to serve in either the Navy (or other service) Reserves, or in the merchant marine community (which most of them do, because that is where they make the most money, according to the LT I spoke with). After graduation they are required to maintain their USCG Captain's License for a certain amount of time regardless of which career path they chose after graduation.

A big difference between Kings Point and the other Service Academies, as far as I could tell from my conversation with the LT, was that their cadets don't receive any pay from any branch of the military and they aren't subject to the UCMJ while they are in school. Couldn't determine what type of ID card they would be issued when they were inducted into the inactive Navy Reserve. I found that odd that he wouldn't know the answers to those questions.

Cadets and Midshipmen at the other 4 service academies, do receive a stipend (they say its not pay, but really it is, since they have to pay income taxes on it, or at least file a return) and they ARE members of their respective services from day 1 and thus subject to the UCMJ.

Another huge difference between USCGA and the other Academies is the fact that the USCGA does NOT require any kind of congressional or presidential appointment for admission. It is simply a direct application and competitive admission process, which may or may not appeal to some people.

Anyway, I stand corrected and better informed now, thanks for a good discussion.

FJ

 

[Andy]

FJ, thanks for the additional details on both the MMA and USCGA. All the best to your daughter - I wish that one of my kids had been interested in going to a service academy, but they had no interest.
No matter which academy one goes to, it's a tough way to get a 'free' education, but as Scrapdog said, the longer since you've graduated, the more proud one is of not only being chosen to attend, but also to have graduated.