air desert pacific

[cforst513]

i got something in the mail today from air desert pacific flight school in la verne, california. doesn't seem like it's a huge pilot factory or anything and they have reasonable prices. has anyone heard of them before or know anything about them? their website is www.airdesertpacific.com. Part 61 training, PPL-MEI is $29,000, and Part 141 is $35,745. Sounds decent and competitive. what do you guys think?

 

[Rogue5]

Have fun explaining Piper SIC time on an airline interview:

SECOND-IN-COMMAND PROGRAM

Air Desert Pacific operates Piper PA31 (Navajo) and PA34 (Seneca) aircraft on regular FAR Part 135 service. The operation includes provisions for a Second-In-Command (SIC). The Air Desert Pacific SIC program offers pilots the opportunity to gain operational Multi-Engine experience in a commercial environment. Minimum requirements for the program are FAA Commercial Pilot certificate - Airplane Multi-Engine Land and Instrument Airplane rating. There is no minimum flight experience required.

The cost of the SIC program is $6,995 which includes:

FAR Part 135 Ground School,
Drug Test,
Training Supplies,
Flight Training (8 hours),
FAR 135 Check Ride,
200 hours of SIC flight time.

Additional SIC flight time may be purchased at $20 per hour in blocks of 200 hours.

Anyplace that wants you to pay them to let you "work" there is a bit too shady for my taste, regardless of if you only do the inital training there or do the "SIC program."


What did they use to call them, "Another Dead Pilot?"

 

[cforst513]

true, but that's for a part 135 charter deal. i have no ratings or hours. even if i did, this program looks like crap to me anyways. i'm more worried about the training aspect. though i did do a quick search and found some stuff on this forum, i'll read that soon. i'm in class right now (the beauty of wireless PC's in the classroom) so i guess i should pay attention. i will do more research later, though. thanks for your tip, though.

 

[HMR]

cforst513- No harm in asking. That's what this forum is for. Personally, I'd steer clear of ADP. They've had a bad reputation for years. If you're in SoCal there are A LOT of choices for training. If you're smart about it, I think you can do PPL-MEI for ~30K w/ a reputable flight school.


Rogue5- I agree, that SIC program is bogus but if you read the "Logging Time in a Twin Cessna" thread, some FlightInfo'ers disagree. Personally, I can't imagine showing up to an interview w/200hrs Seneca SIC (worthless) and then they find out you PAID 7K for it! Doesn't "judgement" play a role in being a successful pilot?

For 7K you could rent a decent Duchess and get some legit PIC time. Or better yet, get your MEI rating and actually learn something.

 

[Flyin Tony]

I looked at the place sometime ago. I was just going to get my IFR there and do it in a week and get it done. They never called me back, so I call the owner. I was going to do it in my plane (comanche 250) and the owner didnt have a CFII that would do it in the comanche because (he says) to fast and his CFII only have time in PA28 and that kinda crap. I was like WTF why are they scuuurd to fly a comanche. There planes are a POS, one of them there went up in flames when someone tried to start it. There are other places here around socal that you can fly much better stuff at the same price.

 

[English]

OK, let's bring the acronym book out again.

Another Downed Piper
Another Dead Pilot


What are some of the other ones?

There's a reason the place has so many nicknames.

 

[cforst513]

There are other places here around socal that you can fly much better stuff at the same price.

Actually, Tony, now that I think about it, I'd like to avoid California if I could. I made a trip there from Ohio and I just wasn't seeing myself there. Gotta follow my gut feeling.

I am more interested in Florida. It's a little closer (1,000 miles vs. 2,000 miles) from home and there are lots of other good schools there too. Like Epic Aviation -- heard of it?

As for these nicknames for Air Desert Pacific, are these warranted? Have there been fatalities at the school?

 

[English]

Courtesy of the NTSB...


LAX04CA173
On March 31 2004, about 1255 Pacific standard time, a Piper PA-34-200, N74SA, collided with terrain while attempting a go-around at Brackett Field Airport, La Verne, California. Air Desert Pacific was operating the airplane under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The certified flight instructor (CFI) and student pilot were not injured; the airplane sustained substantial damage. The local instructional flight originated from La Verne about 1150. Day visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and a flight plan had not been filed.

In a written statement, the CFI reported that he was overseeing the student's landing attempt on runway 26R. While inbound, about 4,000 feet mean sea level, the CFI turned the right engine fuel selector to the "off" position, in an effort to simulate an engine failure. The student followed the proper procedure by correctly identifying the failed engine and positioning the left throttle, mixture, and propeller controls in their full forward position, and the right throttle control in the idle position. While on the downwind portion of the traffic pattern, the air traffic control tower cleared them to land on runway 26L. On final approach, the student configured the airplane with full flaps and the landing gear in the extended position.

On short final, about 100 feet above ground level, the airplane was high and not properly aligned with the runway. The CFI opted to make a go-around, and the student inputted full throttle on both engines. The student was unable to maintain airspeed and establish a positive rate of climb. The CFI communicated that he would take over the controls, and attempted to continue the go-around. The airplane would not climb and drifted to the right, across runway 26R. The airplane continued in a gradual decent, and the stall warning horn sounded. The right wing impacted terrain, and the airplane spun around on the ground.

The CFI stated that he had become distracted, and did not remember to turn the fuel selector back to the "on" position after the student had identified the failed engine while inbound. He thought this was the reason that the right engine did not respond to the throttle input during the go-around. He added that it was possible that he could not maintain directional control of the airplane because the student may have failed to relinquish the controls. The CFI reported no preimpact mechanical malfunctions or failures with the airplane.

 

[English]

Here are the reports surrounding their accidents, including numerous fatalities.




http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX03LA130&rpt=fa

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX01FAMS02&rpt=p

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX01FA004&rpt=fa

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX99LA181&rpt=fa

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX98FA189&rpt=fa

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX94FA243A&rpt=fa

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX94LA230&rpt=fa

 

[HMR]

The CFI stated that he had become distracted, and did not remember to turn the fuel selector back to the "on" position after the student had identified the failed engine while inbound.

What the... nevermind.

 

[cforst513]

sweet mother of god... thanks for the heads-up, you guys!! i think i'll steer clear of this one.

 

[Flyin Tony]

According to the maintenance records the engine was at 4,281 hours since major overhaul

GOOD GOD

 

[cforst513]

there's a name that appears there a lot as the aircraft owner - Ari David Lapin. Is he part of the namesake Ari-Ben Aviators, by chance?

That's a LOT of fatalities associated with their rented aircraft and flight training.

 

[EMB145XR]

Ari Lapin is the flight school's owner. He was always nice enough to me, but I'd steer clear of his operation.

My flights instructor worked there when I came out to CA for my flight training. He ended up telling me that he'd rather see me fly and train elsewhere. I did and don't regret it one second.

 

[HMR]

Just curious... Everyone knows ADP is dangerous. How do they stay in business? Why don't the Feds shut them down?

I worked at a SoCal flight school w/good mx, mostly brand new A/C and an excellent safety record. One of our renters had a mental meltdown and intentionally put a perfectly good, brand new plane into a field about 15 miles from the airport (no injuries, thankfully). Our school was crawling w/Feds demanding to see our training records, MX records and SOP's. It was a BIG DEAL.

Who's the POI @ ADP? Napolean? Kip? ...Uncle Rico?

 

[cforst513]

Who's the POI @ ADP? Napolean? Kip? ...Uncle Rico?

LMAO!!! I'm guessing it's Tina, the llama

 

[Flyin Tony]

I was down there getting gas at POC one day and seen some hot girl in one of there planes.........I was like WTF

But there prices are cheap, thats going to bring in a bunch of people. In Apple Valley, the FBO there dosent have the best looking planes or the best panels. But they sure run good. I dont think they have yet to have any mx related crashes or anything bad happen to any of there planes. I think most people get the ratings at the cheap place then goto another flightschool with newer planes and rent them. But what do I know

But just like everyone say stay away from ADP

(one day I might be a multi ho and need some twin time and go CFI there)

 

[CorpLearDriver]

sweet mother of god... thanks for the heads-up, you guys!! i think i'll steer clear of this one.

cforst513, check out Aviation Facilities, Inc. @ Fullerton Municipal. AFI has been around for 40 or more years doing the job day in and day out. Many of the places I use to fly at in SoCal are now gone, but they have survived. Nothing flashy, an the prices may or may not be the best in the area. But they do the job.

 

[English]

AFI is great, but pricey (due to the 141 label). They are very organized and and keep good records. You'll always know what you're doing from one lesson to the next. However, I think they are all single engine airplanes. They used to have a twin, but I heard they don't have it anymore. I personally don't think it will fit cforst513's requirements. They aren't used to getting people done in a shortened time frame.

Check out some places in Florida.

What about ALLATPS?

 

[cforst513]

I personally don't think it will fit cforst513's requirements. They aren't used to getting people done in a shortened time frame.

Check out some places in Florida.

What about ALLATPS?

Good call, English. I will be 22 when I start my flight training, and yes, I know that is still a very young age, I'd like to get up and instructing fast to build time, b/c who knows how long it will take me to build up my hours. I figure the earlier I start, the better.

As for AllATPs, I haven't checked in there yet. I have been trying to avoid what I view as "pilot mills" like DCA, FSI, MESA (and I lumped ALLATPS in there too). Instead, I have been trying smaller part 61 and 141 schools like Mazzei in Fresno (but I came away from there not like CA and Fresno at all, couldn't see myself there) and I'm looking at Epic in Florida right now. These places typically seemed to have a moderately fast PPL-MEI program and the price was reasonable. I am trying to keep it below $40,000. I will have to check out AllATPs though. Are they a good operation, English? I'll do a board search later, but for now I am reviewing for a test that I have later today. Thanks!