Ahhh!!! I can't take it anymore/SECURITY

[flint4xx]

I was in uniform with proper ID with my entire crew, but I set off the metal detector. I was searched by a twenty-ish middle eastern male screener. This guy still had a thick accent, and my twenty years of prior US government service, US birth certificate, or anglo heritage, means nothing. Does that make any sense to you? He did his job properly so I have no complaint, but what happened to outrage in this country? Who says you have to stand by and just accept? Did we smile and say thank you when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor? By not responding in some fashion, things will only deteriorate more. We can all affect more change by writing to our politicians and newspapers, than demanding to see the screeners supervisor.

One of the biggest problems in this country is the death of outrage. And no, we CAN'T all get along, so get over it already. Enough quiche eating, equality, save the whales, gay rights BS. If you are party to something screwed up you have an obligation as an American, and aviator, and company employee, to say something. You don't like it? Move to France with the rest of them.

OK, I feel better.

 

[Jeff G]

Did we smile and say thank you when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor?

"Germans?"

"Forget it, he's rolling."

 

[1900laker]

RichardFitzwell posted the following quotes:
__________________________________________________
I flew B737s for a major airline until October 1, 2001 when I was furloughed. Since then I have been flying a Falcon Jet in 135 ops. and recently I started working for the TSA as a supervisor screener.
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
Though I will not go into detail about TSA policy with you on a public forum, I will say you are incorrect in many of your assumptions. Now please tell me how it is...
__________________________________________________

____________________________________________________
They have been told to look through your wallet only if you set off the walk through metal detector
___________________________________________________

____________________________________________________
You will only be wanded if you set off the metal detector.
____________________________________________________


So just so you can set me straight..... I wasn't in uniform (identified as a crew member) standing at the gate (where there are no walkthrough metal detectors) getting wanded, when the screener demanded to search through my wallet. Do you think I am wasting my time typing this because it didn't happen?????

WRONG! I sensed you had a biased opinion from your first quote. Thanks for admitting that you are part of the TSA now. But you should refer to the TSA as WE, not THEY. But all that aside, can you honestly not admit that the account I gave before is true and can and does happen?

I sense from other posts on this board that I am not the only crew member in the U.S. that believes that screeners are not following their instructions to the letter. Anyone?

 

[1900laker]

He might have been quoting Belushi from "1941", though I can't remember the line exactly.

 

[Typhoon1244]

He might have been quoting Belushi from "1941", though I can't remember the line exactly.

Actually, it was Animal House.

 

[nimtz]

My two cents:

I can't speak for the x-ray machine area, but I'll give you my take on the gate screening. First of all I commute on UAL almost 50% of the time, so I'm very familiar with getting screened at the gate. I agree the policy sucks, but for crying out loud the moaning some of you guys are making is pathetic. I'd love to go off on a rant like some of you guys, but it just hasn't been the harrowing experience you make it out to sound like. So you throw your commuter sack up on the table and a guy proceeds to go through it while you get wanded. Total amount of hassle, maybe three minutes at most. Well worth it if it gets me home an hour earlier then waiting for a later flight on my airline. Trust me you get used to it.
To be fair to the screeners they have never given me a hard time while I have been searched, whether in uniform or not. One guy at ORD even took special care with wrapped x-mas presents to ensure that he pulled the tape out neatly, so that it wouldn't ruin the wrapping job. Again I think its stupid to search any flight crew member with the suspicion of them being a terrorist, but ease up putting all the sh*t on the security people. Until our government and union leaders get their sh*t together regarding this issue, it's just something you have to deal with.
I have to admit alot of the brand new TSA employees have been extremely polite and professional toward me while doing the gate screening. They now the policy is ridiculous, but it's just something they have to do. I'm cautiously optimistic that these people (even if they were former screeners) will continue to be professional and represent a marked improvement over the jokes that were the private firms.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

1900laker,

I will try to answer your questions to help you and other flight crew members understand the screening process a little better. (without giving out policy)

When a person passes through the walk through metal detector and it alarms, you will be asked to step aside to resolve the alarm. This further screening is performed regardless of being in uniform or not. Continuous screening is also being performed and it is just that - continuous. Every couple of people through the metal detector will be sent for additional screening (wanded) even if they did not set off the metal detector. If that person is a flight crew member in uniform, the person directing the passengers to the continuous screener is supposed to skip the crew member and send the next person.

The boarding gate is totally separate. The screeners at the gate have no idea if a person has already been screened earlier. Gates can be very far from the initial screening point and still be in the sterile area. Passengers are selected at the gate either by the airlines or at random. If the airline feels a person fits a certain criteria based on their ticket purchase, etc., they will be selected again for continuous screening. If the next passenger at the boarding gate selected for a random search is a flight crew member in uniform, they should be skipped over for continuous screening. Without a pilot being in uniform at the gate, it is easier and faster to simply perform a further screening. (Even though as pilots we both know the extensive background checks we have already been through to get to where we are).

Believe me when I say we have people belittle this job daily. DO I enjoy working as a screener instead of flying for the airlines? F..K NO!! Is this a necessary job? He11 yeah!! The goal of the TSA is to earn peoples respect through their own respect towards the passengers. The screeners of the past put a bad impression in people's minds about airport security. The TSA is working very hard to change this stereotype.

I don't like to hear about people being mistreated by screeners and I hope the story above about the screener not speaking English was from an airport that has not yet been taken over by the Transportation Security Administration.

I hope people start to become more comfortable with this new process and return to the airlines for travel. When I am screening flight crew I never identify myself as a furloughed pilot. Most every pilot and FA I have come across have been very courteous and the other passengers pick up on this. I feel it is up to the airline professionals to lead by example. I want to get back to the airlines yesterday. I have earned a new respect for the job the airport screeners do. I may have more at stake than many working for the TSA but I can assure you that every person I work with has an impressive past and takes their job very seriously. I invite anyone reading this that is looking for additional income to apply. Pilots make very good screeners.




On a side note:

1900laker -- I wrote 'they' and not 'we' because I have been a pilot a lot longer than I have been a security screener. I still like to think of myself as a pilot. That is what I love to do. Maybe my airline will one day call me back and maybe they won't. Either way screening is paying our bills today. Thank you for keeping me honest on my unemployment status.

 

[1900laker]

Alright

Fair enough R.F.

Thanks for the clarification and the informative post. I withdraw my previous surly tone toward you. The TSA does overall seem to be doing a much better job than what was in place before. I have actually been greeted while going through security lately, which definately is a change from the past. I unfortunately did have a bad experience with this one particular screener in BWI, but I also realize that especially in a new organization you are going to have a) some bad apples and b) kinks that will work themselves out with time.

I know your situation is tough, and I understand somewhat how you feel. Thanks for hanging with the posts. A good debate is often the best way to a solution. Good luck on getting back to flying soon.

P.s. You will probably still see me b1tchin about security in replies to other posts, but I will try to temper that with what we discussed here. Feel free to jump in there again. Believe it or not, we definately trust a pilot behind the scenes over a non-pilot.

 

[Dep676]

R.F.

So let me get this straight. The TSA screeners are suppose to over look flight crew? That is the way I understood it from your post.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

R.F.

So let me get this straight. The TSA screeners are suppose to over look flight crew? That is the way I understood it from your post.

Here's what I wrote, "When a person passes through the walk through metal detector and it alarms, you will be asked to step aside to resolve the alarm. This further screening is performed regardless of being in uniform or not."

Therefore, anyone (flight crew included) who alarms walking through the metal detector will step aside for further screening. The secondary screener will resolve all alarms on the person who set off the walk through alarm either by wanding or by a limited pat down. If an alarm cannot be resolved, the person will be asked to step aside for a private screening. Unfortunately, this includes flight crew. If the person working on the X-Ray finds a possible or a potential threat, that bag will be searched (flight crew included) until the threat is resolved. No exceptions.

Once flight crew with identification and in uniform have been initially creared and enter the sterile area (the area beyond the walk through metal detector, including the boarding gates) they should not be asked to participate further in the continuous screening process (i.e. further screening at the gate). Pilots and F/As not in uniform are considered normal passengers and will be screened continuously.

This maybe different at airports not yet taken over by the TSA. These searches will be conducted in a professional manner and each person being screened will be treated with respect. If you feel you have not been treated in the manner you expect, contact a screening supervisor. I assure you the situation will be resolved and guidelines for disciplinary action are in place. I have not heard of the 'screw up and move up policy' at the TSA.

As you all know, the TSA is under a microscope right now. WE cannot afford to make mistakes. I totally understand and at one time supported the, "but we are at the controls" arguement. I still somewhat agree with it but WE, as screeners, must follow OUR rules enforcing prohibited items entering the sterile area. Should a flight crew member bring a prohibited item through security and loose control of it, the screeners will get blamed for letting it through security. The press has a field day with news like that and passengers become more afraid to travel. If and when pilots start carrying guns, things will certainly get tougher to control (only my opinion).

I would like to see something official from ALPA on flight crew procedures through security. I'd also like to see further progress towards the national identification process for flight crew. Hopefully soon.

 

[Hovernut]

Blunt Object

What's the deal with the "blunt object" restriction. I'd never heard of this "hazard" until this morning and this thread. Is it simply an objective call, or is there a list of specific objects that are prohibited. I've never seen any guidelines on the checkpoint posters/warnings.

Reason I'm asking is because I just brought an old hand-crank telephone ringer generator down to Orlando from St. Louis in my carry-on. STL x-ray studied it for a while in the x-ray and then looked at it later and said "cool!" Boarded w/o incident. Next day in CVG, x-ray is dazzled again, does the visual bag search and calls for a supervisor. She comes over and says she won't allow it past because it could be used as a blunt weapon! The inconsistency is frustrating to me!! This thing is 10 lbs. and is just a series of horshoe magnets stacked side by side. I could do more damage swinging my carry-on around than with this thing!

I just wish everyone would get their stories straight. Is there a website that has decent guidance on what not to bring??

 

[dispatchguy]

I commute out of ORD, where the TSA just took over within the past couple of days.

A) So far so good. I was talking to an NAL employee yesterday and for the most part the passengers like the perceived professionalism of the TSA screeners. I will admit, like I have before, that its nice to see people who dont need to work on a green card doing screener work. I havent had to deal with them that much yet. You still have green-card types looking at your tickets or IDs, but not where it counts.

B) As for the screeners rummaging thru your wallet, I remove all of the following and throw it in my rollaboard (allow me to again plug the PNTCO rollaboard, gotta love all the external pockets)

My pen
My wallet
Wedding ring
belt
ID
any pocket change

No one has yet rummaged thru my wallet. The airline I work for thankfully doesnt do electronic listing for the jumpseat - we still use just the 3-part form, so no getting flagged for the last second strip search.

I do think that continuous screening is ridiculous. When I was leaving PHX a few days ago, I saw the screener wand a woman's naked feet, and for the life of me I couldnt figure out what the possible threat was - that her foot was removable, and that she had a 007-style gun in there?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I was watching her getting wanded (she was a little hottie) and her foot never made the wand beep, and neither did her birkenstocks.

I was passing thru a TSA airport not too long ago, and I had a $hitload of coins in one of the sidepockets in my rollabaord, that the screener couldnt see thru it, so they needed to check it out. Screener sees the image on the x-ray, sees my bag tag and asks if I'm crew - I tell him I'm a jumpseating dispatcher and that my license and airline ID is in the side pocket. He just hands me my bag and sends me on my way.

 

[Dep676]

What makes no sense at all is that "they the screeners" don't even think twice about the pen you have in your pocket. Do you know how many ways you can kill or injure a person with a simple ink pen? Yet they give a crew member crap about his required flash light. Meanwhile the middle eastern guy walks right through with his ink pen or pencil in his pocket.

Hey Fitz why don't you bring that up in your next meeting? Quit trying to make excuses for the TSA and just admit it's bunch of crap the way they pick people to screen. Instead of all the little old ladies and crew members go after the real terriost threats. Just because somebody has a oneway ticket makes them a suspect.

If anybody at the TSA had a half a brain they would know that's how crew members get back and forth to work, especially the guys at the frac's. Just because you buy a round trip ticket dosen't mean you intend to return. I don't know for sure but how many of the 9/11 highjackers had roundtrip tickets? Also how far in advance were they purchased?

As far as the idiots that ruined the guys logbooks and clothes on his way to an interview. They should be fired and have to pay him for new clothes and logbook. Then lets go over to there house and rummage through their stuff and ruin it. And we are paying these people with our tax dollars. Money well spent.

 

[skydash]

Screening

Mr. Fitzwell, Since you seem to be "on the inside",where can we go to find out what is or isn't "standard policy". I'd kinda like to know what my rights are(or aren't). Thank you

 

[RichardFitzwell]

What makes no sense at all is that "they the screeners" don't even think twice about the pen you have in your pocket. Do you know how many ways you can kill or injure a person with a simple ink pen? Yet they give a crew member crap about his required flash light. Meanwhile the middle eastern guy walks right through with his ink pen or pencil in his pocket.

Hey Fitz why don't you bring that up in your next meeting?

Come on man. Do you just want to argue or what? I was explaining the TSA screening process but your right. You could kill someone with a pen and pencil. Should we ban pens and pencils? How about your bare hands? People can kill other people with their bare hands. Should we ban peoples hands? Don't take it too far.

People with valid concerns can access TSA travel tips at...

[url]https://www.tsa.gov/trav_consumers/trav_consumers_index.shtm[/URL]

There you will find links to lists of prohibited and permitted items.

 

[Dep676]

No I am saying screen the people that need screened and not flight crews and little old grandma. Instead of wasting my money screening the flight crew trying to get home and see his/her family. Screen the real threats and if that means profiling to bad.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Sorry that link didn't work. Try...www.tsa.gov

Then link to Travelers & Consumers in the upper left corner.


Dep676,

Like I said, you can't blame the screeners for NOT profiling. WE are not allowed to profile. I agree that would probably be more effective but IT IS NOT ALLOWED yet. I understand a 'legal' system of profiling is in the works but it is not currently being used. Until it is, WE as screeners are doing what WE can to make sure ALL prohibited items stay out of the sterile area.

Let me run a scenario by you to try to express my point. Lets say tomorrow we stop screening flight crew. Now a flight attendant decides he wants to protect himself by carrying a 12" blade strapped to his leg. Great!

Here's the problem. The next time he goes to the bathroom he finds can't sit down. He sets the knife on the back of the toilet in the men's room at the gate. Boarding is called and he runs out of the bathroom leaving the knife for the next passenger to find. Can you guess who will get blamed for the knife being in the sterile area? Answer = TSA.

I realize this might be an extreme example but it could happen. You can't please all the people all the time. Right now WE are trying to be more safe than sorry. Our jobs and future depend on it.

The fact that this is an inconvenience to you when you are jumpseating is simply tough sh!t! Being furloughed for me has also been an inconvenience. Live with it!

 

[Dep676]

R Fitzwell

Fitzwell,

Rationalizing. That what your posts sound like. You being a pilot and a supervisor should have some voice in profiling and hurry it up. Instead of profling flight crews and grandma. That's what it looks like right now. If the people that fit the profile don't like it move or don't fly.

I am not saying that flight crews shouldn't go through metal detectors. That is where the 12" blade would be found.

I have a flight crews tell me that they get picked at the first check piont and the gate. There should be a way to tell of a person has already been screened. Unless they don't trust the first screeners to do their jobs. Which we know how government workers do their jobs.

Explain how all these reporters got through checkpoints this weekend with knives and pepper spray? I have a feeling the screeners overlooked them because they weren't in uniforms or a 80 year old lady.

Now lets not say profiling isn't going on. Let's just start on the right people.

 

[1900laker]

Fitz,

Thanks for posting that link to the TSA. I read through the list and now see where the screener "interpreted" my maglight as a heavy tool, and thus should prohibit it.

But I also realized that instead of just bashing you on this website to speak up within the TSA with 1 voice, that website has an excellent way for us to send the TSA our thoughts.

So that is what we should be doing as flight crew with complaints.... go to the TSA website and send them e-mail from there. Perhaps after enough complaints, the managers will realize the big problems we are sometimes having. And be honest... It doesn't take any longer to complain by typing here than it would there. Just cut and paste....

What do you think guys/gals?

 

[katanabob]

Perhaps I missed an address to this point earlier, (and while it's not exactly related to screening of flight crews, it is quite pertinent to security in general) but who screens the screeners? Yes, this is another Catch-22 type element, but when the aforementioned screeners show up to work in the morning and are the first ones there, (in the cases of those airports which may not operate 24/7) how is there any guarantee that they won't become agents to smuggle items across the invisible line?
It seems to me that the reason for screening pilots is ridiculous, however, it would seem relatively easy to get hired as a screener and funnel things through. No?
-charlie

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Re: R Fitzwell

You being a pilot and a supervisor should have some voice in profiling and hurry it up.

Are you trying to be ignorant?

I am done trying to convince you. You seem to be very concerned about the money being spent on airport security and don't have any suggestions other than your 'profile first and shoot to kill later bull sh!t.'

Are you really even a pilot? I will guarantee our government spends far more money in less productive areas than airport security. As a pilot you should be all for better security.

 

[1900laker]

Hey Charles,

Not just the screeners, but the caterers, mechanics, ramp personnel. Many airports still have these employees accessing the airport with no screening whatsoever. I won't name the airport for security reasons, but the only thing between the street and the tarmac, is a gate in the fence, with one of those 5 digit cyphers, and we all know you can figure those out pretty quick, or set up a little surveilance to find the combo. Pilot uniforms? Try coveralls. It once again brings it home that if our security screening is not 100% effective (as it has proven not to be), then you have to take security on the plane; airmarshalls and armed pilots as a last line of defense.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Perhaps I missed an address to this point earlier, (and while it's not exactly related to screening of flight crews, it is quite pertinent to security in general) but who screens the screeners? Yes, this is another Catch-22 type element, but when the aforementioned screeners show up to work in the morning and are the first ones there, (in the cases of those airports which may not operate 24/7) how is there any guarantee that they won't become agents to smuggle items across the invisible line?
It seems to me that the reason for screening pilots is ridiculous, however, it would seem relatively easy to get hired as a screener and funnel things through. No?
-charlie

charlie,

I can't speak for all airports but where I work, screeners screen screeners. We all have had our backgrounds checked by an outside company and we all have clean records. Also all screeners are under very strict supervision.

Everytime I leave security I must pass back through the same screening process you do. I have metal shanks in my shoes so they must come off and be run through x-ray separate. I have found that by walking through the metal detector slower than normal, I have better chance of getting through without sounding the alarm. Again, this may be airport specific.