Age 65... what does it mean to you?

[John Pennekamp]

I'm surprised this isn't a hotter issue here. I know it was discussed a little bit before, but I haven't heard anything in a while.

In case you haven't heard, ICAO is extending the service life of airline pilots to 65 years old. The FAA is sure to follow when it goes into effect in October.

Has anyone considered how this is going to change things like mainline and regional hiring, attrition, upgrade, and seniority? All of the old farts that were to retire in the next year or so will now be with us for another 5 years.

Essentially, movement is going to stop for the next 5 years until retirements start up again.

Discuss...

 

[GCAP]

I'm surprised this isn't a hotter issue here. I know it was discussed a little bit before, but I haven't heard anything in a while.

In case you haven't heard, ICAO is extending the service life of airline pilots to 65 years old. The FAA is sure to follow when it goes into effect in October.

Has anyone considered how this is going to change things like mainline and regional hiring, attrition, upgrade, and seniority? All of the old farts that were to retire in the next year or so will now be with us for another 5 years.

Essentially, movement is going to stop for the next 5 years until retirements start up again.

Discuss...

By the time those old farts get to be 65, the rule will change again. To 70.... then 75... and you will never be able to get that job that you would have sold your mother for. Grow up and accept the fact you will never be a REAL airline pilot.

 

[BenderGonzales]

It means that 7000+ furloughees will likely be delayed in their recall for at least a few years more. Provided you guys don't decide that a 150 seat "regional jet" is a smart idea. If that happens, then god only knows when the recalls might happen.

 

[John Pennekamp]

By the time those old farts get to be 65, the rule will change again. To 70.... then 75... and you will never be able to get that job that you would have sold your mother for. Grow up and accept the fact you will never be a REAL airline pilot.

Uh... ok. That was childish and inflammatory.

If you've been paying attention here, my age and ambition pretty much exclude me from that "coveted" 737 dream job of yours, so go stroke your little ego elsewhere. I have no desire to move down in pay and seniority to take your job.

I may not fly a Boeing, Airbus, or Douglass, but I am MOST CERTAINLY a real airline pilot.

 

[cynic]

Don't forget the airline pilot's creed. FYIGM

 

[IFLYASA]

By then, most pilots will be tired of the airlines and would quite at 60. Those with 5 ex-wives will continue just so they can have income. It would make a huge difference in retirement. Extending social security (if it's still around) by 5 years, and not touching 401k for and extra 5 years, would almost double your retirement income.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I'm surprised this isn't a hotter issue here. I know it was discussed a little bit before, but I haven't heard anything in a while...

This has been debated a lot on here, particularly in the majors forum. The "search" function should have yielded a lot of results if you tried it.

 

[NoJoy]

If we have a chance to vote on this-the answer from me will be NO. I do not want to wait 5 more years to interview, get off reserve or upgrade. Those that say it won't affect them are banking that they can hold a medical until their 65. Some will profit from this, the majority won't.

 

[Terrain Terrain]

it means less money, and more old guys c0ckblocking me.

sheez

 

[atlcrashpad]

65 means five more years before I can screw off.... Hey, I do that already.... I'll get Social Security before I draw my retirement....

 

[wmuflyguy]

My solution....Can not be a PIC above age 60, over 60 as an SIC only.

It'll be up to the pilots to negotiate how the Over 60 FO's shall be compensated.

 

[Axel]

It's all about perspective

Young guys hate it, old guys like it. When the young guys who hate it now get to be old guys who like it, there will be a new crop of young guys to hate it.

Ad infinitum.

Next topic.

 

[General Lee]

In Britain the age was raised to 62 or 63, but the Captains have to move to FO at 60. That would still allow the upgrades to happen, but the recalls would slow. I still think that would be dangerous. By the time a pilot hits 60, he/she is well below their prime, well below.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FoxHunter]

In Britain the age was raised to 62 or 63, but the Captains have to move to FO at 60. That would still allow the upgrades to happen, but the recalls would slow. I still think that would be dangerous. By the time a pilot hits 60, he/she is well below their prime, well below.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Come on General, get your facts. Britain is a JAA, the age is 65 for Captains or F/Os. Yes, if a British airliner flys into JFK today anyone over age 60 can act as F/O only. After November 23, 2006 that will no longer be the case when it becomes age 65 because of the ICAO rule change. France has been the problem within Europe. Yes France is also a JAA country but will not allow anyone over the age of 60 to land in or overfly France. France thinks everyone should retire at age 50, probably one of the reasons their unemployment rate is almost 10%. After November 23 France also can keep the age 60 rule for their pilots but the rest of the world can fly into France until age 65. Four nations voted against changing the age 60 rule France, Pakistan, Columbia, and the USA.

 

[TWA Dude]

The FAA is sure to follow when it goes into effect in October.

They are most definitely not sure to follow. They've said again and again they're against raising the age. Not to mention the influencial ATA is also against it. It may happen someday but no time soon.

 

[GCAP]

In Britain the age was raised to 62 or 63, but the Captains have to move to FO at 60. That would still allow the upgrades to happen, but the recalls would slow. I still think that would be dangerous. By the time a pilot hits 60, he/she is well below their prime, well below.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I don't understand your "dangerous" statement. Are you trying to say that I am dangerous because I'm getting "up there in years"? I've said it before, there is NOTHING that you can do (F or F or F ing ) as well as I and I'm that "old fart". I'm the guy that had to hold your feeble hand all through training. I can't remember---weren't you one of those Comair Academy DUDES.

 

[FoxHunter]

They are most definitely not sure to follow. They've said again and again they're against raising the age. Not to mention the influencial ATA is also against it. It may happen someday but no time soon.

The FAA has no choice but to allow age 60+ Captains to fly into the USA after Nov. 23. That will be the world standard and the USA signed the Chicago Convention in 1947. Sounds like it actually was signed in the USA.

 

[bailout]

They are most definitely not sure to follow. They've said again and again they're against raising the age. Not to mention the influencial ATA is also against it. It may happen someday but no time soon.

It has already passed in one house, and soon the other. It WILL happen.

I dont care how old you are, adding 5 years of income is HUGE. Dont be short-sighted. So what if you have to wait a few more years to upgrade or whatever, you will be working 5 years longer at higher pay. Geez, it's not rocket science.

 

[General Lee]

I don't understand your "dangerous" statement. Are you trying to say that I am dangerous because I'm getting "up there in years"? I've said it before, there is NOTHING that you can do (F or F or F ing ) as well as I and I'm that "old fart". I'm the guy that had to hold your feeble hand all through training. I can't remember---weren't you one of those Comair Academy DUDES.

Comair academy? No way. But, most of you old farts are dangerous. Your hearing is gone by 55, and your situational awareness is gone by 60. Sorry. And, I have done great in all of my trainings, no hand holding. Do you like to hold hands with your FOs? Hey pal, I don't go that way.....


And, don't tell me you didn't feel the same way about your captains when you started on the DC3 or as a DC-6 FE. Come on, you thought they needed to go away sooner than 60 I bet. Don't lie to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Lampshade]

They are most definitely not sure to follow. They've said again and again they're against raising the age. Not to mention the influencial ATA is also against it. It may happen someday but no time soon.

It has already passed in one house, and soon the other. It WILL happen.

I dont care how old you are, adding 5 years of income is HUGE. Dont be short-sighted. So what if you have to wait a few more years to upgrade or whatever, you will be working 5 years longer at higher pay. Geez, it's not rocket science.

Work longer but with no higher pay, most CA at majors are at top of scale in 12-15 yrs. Some Fo's might not see upgrade due to the loss of medicals/age while waiting that extra 5 years. Becareful for what you wish.

 

[pianoman]

It's not like everyone is going to just make it to 65 anyway. Many pilots medical out before they even reach 60. More than actually retire, if I remember correctly.

If the FAA imposes stricter medical standards on those pilots over 60, I would bet it will be a very small amount of folks that ever get that far.

Hell, we just had a great guy pass away just shy of 58. Thank God he wasn't doing new hire IOE. It isn't necessarily fair to age-discriminate, but this job has lives in our hands. There has to be an arbitrary line somewhere until medical science advances enough to predict the exact time you'll be incapacitated.

My .02

 

[ironspud]

Comair academy? No way. But, most of you old farts are dangerous. Your hearing is gone by 55, and your situational awareness is gone by 60. Sorry. And, I have done great in all of my trainings, no hand holding. Do you like to hold hands with your FOs? Hey pal, I don't go that way.....


And, don't tell me you didn't feel the same way about your captains when you started on the DC3 or as a DC-6 FE. Come on, you thought they needed to go away sooner than 60 I bet. Don't lie to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

It is "posts" like this that need to be preserved. Hence the "copy". But then again it may be my lack of "situational awareness".

This is a very sick man.

He needs to be "outed" and his picture, as well as his name posted on the internet. Let us do all we can to find out who this little man really is and get the word out.

Our profession no longer has a need for this kind of scum. Too many "better people" out there.

I'm in for $1000 to hire someone to "out" this "dude".

 

[filejw]

Had an FAA guy on the J/S the other day. When I told him I had six yrs left he said no you have eleven. Done deal according to him.

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

I still think that would be dangerous.
Bye Bye--General Lee

I guess Al Haynes was 'dangerous'

186 survivors


"After it happened, the NTSB replicated the data of Flight 232 and not one of the 57 crews they tested in the simulator could control the airplane all the way to the ground."
Source: http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182969-1.html

"...the deaths of 186 people were averted due to the experience of fifty-nine year old Captain Al Haynes and his crew."

"Al Haynes was forced to retire that year, not because he had been in a crash, but because the FAA told him he was too old."
Source: http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=4480

Gen. Richard Cranium sounds just like another baby boomer looking out for himself.

 

[General Lee]

I guess Al Haynes was 'dangerous'

186 survivors


"After it happened, the NTSB replicated the data of Flight 232 and not one of the 57 crews they tested in the simulator could control the airplane all the way to the ground."
Source: http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182969-1.html

"...the deaths of 186 people were averted due to the experience of fifty-nine year old Captain Al Haynes and his crew."

"Al Haynes was forced to retire that year, not because he had been in a crash, but because the FAA told him he was too old."
Source: http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=4480

Gen. Richard Cranium sounds just like another baby boomer looking out for himself.

Was he 60 years old? Could he have done that all by himself? Most, and I say most of the pilots leaving at 60 really NEED to leave. That is the truth, and you know it.

A baby boomer looking out for himself? Didn't the Supreme Court agree with me? I think they did. They told some Southwest pilots they could NOT change the rule for SAFETY reasons, and that they would also have to allow cops and firemen to go past their safe retirement age. You lose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

It is "posts" like this that need to be preserved. Hence the "copy". But then again it may be my lack of "situational awareness".

This is a very sick man.

He needs to be "outed" and his picture, as well as his name posted on the internet. Let us do all we can to find out who this little man really is and get the word out.

Our profession no longer has a need for this kind of scum. Too many "better people" out there.

I'm in for $1000 to hire someone to "out" this "dude".

Yeah, ok there chief..... What I say is true, and you know it. You too need to "come out"---you sound weird. Do you like a witch hunt? ooooh, aaaahhhh. "let's go find this guy, and roast him....."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Was he 60 years old? Could he have done that all by himself? Most, and I say most of the pilots leaving at 60 really NEED to leave. That is the truth, and you know it.

A baby boomer looking out for himself? Didn't the Supreme Court agree with me? I think they did. They told some Southwest pilots they could NOT change the rule for SAFETY reasons, and that they would also have to allow cops and firemen to go past their safe retirement age. You lose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Your ranting and raving have really crossed the line...Is your arrogance and ignorance so completely out of control that you have to put down the fantastic job Captain Al did saving all those lives?? He was very modest about it, but it was his many years of experience and knowledge from those many years that allowed him to accomplish the near impossible!

 

[John Pennekamp]

By then, most pilots will be tired of the airlines and would quite at 60. Those with 5 ex-wives will continue just so they can have income. It would make a huge difference in retirement. Extending social security (if it's still around) by 5 years, and not touching 401k for and extra 5 years, would almost double your retirement income.

See, that's what I was thinking. But I'm also thinking that I'm READY to retire at 60!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Comair academy? No way. But, most of you old farts are dangerous. Your hearing is gone by 55, and your situational awareness is gone by 60. Sorry. And, I have done great in all of my trainings, no hand holding. Do you like to hold hands with your FOs? Hey pal, I don't go that way.....


And, don't tell me you didn't feel the same way about your captains when you started on the DC3 or as a DC-6 FE. Come on, you thought they needed to go away sooner than 60 I bet. Don't lie to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Jeez General, tell us how you really feel! You sure have a way with winning friends and influencing people! I know, you couldn't care less what people think of you.

I think you may have a Napoleon complex. Have you considered some couch time?

 

[WhatRUSmokinGL?]

Was he 60 years old?
Could he have done that all by himself? Most, and I say most of the pilots leaving at 60 really NEED to leave.

Was he 60? no, he was a few months away from it, but how are a few months going to change anything in the situation except:
1. Prove you wrong AGAIN
2. Make you look ilinformed AGAIN
3. Slow YOUR upgrade

NO PERSON could have done it all by themselves. Period. In fact ( I am sorry to bring those up on you again, I know you get nervous with real facts) 57 other CREWS tried to do it and could not. He used his EXPERIENCE and Leadership.

A baby boomer looking out for himself? Didn't the Supreme Court agree with me? I think they did. They told some Southwest pilots they could NOT change the rule for SAFETY reasons, and that they would also have to allow cops and firemen to go past their safe retirement age. You lose.

You know you are just looking out for your own career goals. Whether or not the SCOTUS agrees with you is BS. So you are saying that anything the SCOTUS says is Correct? I doubt it.

And you even said SCOTUS used the excuse that the precedent set would be used by the firemen and policemen.