AGE 65 Victory Party

[Falconjet]

Actually PCL just made a very compelling argument that paying ALPA dues is remarkably akin to paying taxes to the government.

That is precisely the problem with ALPA right now, particularly at FedEx now that we have Agency shop, they are simply imposing a tax on the pilots and then going off and doing what they will with the money.

Despite PCL's and Rez's rants, ALPA is not the government, it is an organization that was formed to look after the best interests of its members. Such an organization should SERVE its membership and provide a value or service of some sort for the dues they collect. They are not doing that right now, but thanks to the fact that they can still collect their tax (err dues), there is very little we can do about it. ALPA has forgotten the service part, and Rex and PCL seem to think that it is your fault because you didn't go to a union meeting.

FJ

 

[PCL_128]

there is very little we can do about it.

Actually, there's a lot that you can do about it, but it doesn't involve sitting around and whining. It involves getting involved in the union. It involves voting. It involves bringing resolutions to your Local Council meetings. It involves running for office. It involves all of the things that the membership is too damned lazy to do. As long as that's the case, then incompetent leadership like Prater can do whatever the hell they want and get away with it. The membership does have the power to change it, but as always, they won't.

 

[Falconjet]

Ok Rez, I mean PCL. I guess I should have said there is nothing I can do about it, since I do all of those things you two harp on everybody for not doing.

Fine. You guys keep up the fight against apathy, I'll continue to rail against ALPA National and my MEC when they disregard the will of those who DO participate.

Thanks again for the lectures.

FJ

 

[waveflyer]

Well said FalconJet-
The reason i keep asking if you've read Atlas Shrugged is because i think you have some assumptions of what money is.

My money IS my time. It IS my energy, and it IS my effort.

You make it sound like the organization taking that money- with which i have no choice but to give should not be responsible for that. I have to think that is one of the main reasons people have become disenchanted with it.

Don't confuse me with the JoeMerchants of the world- that's not me, but ALPA is a road that has been traveled a long time-- i'm a young guy and you're saying you have no answer to why we have a national union set up the way we do. Is it odd that i would expect the older generation to know such a basic question. If I were king of alpa i could give you lots of opinions and strategies that i think would work- but i'm trying to figure out what is, not what i would like it to be.

Since you're into my opinion- I will again give you the advice that Leaders do NOT blame those they lead. By DEFINITION they take responsibility. Your posts though intended to spark the membership and guilt them into participation have the opposite effect. You are in fact helping to create the situation that you complain about... which is true about most forms of complaint (my own about ALPA leadership included). We have a cycle going on here-- if i promise to look in the mirror= will you agree to do the same?

I asked another question before... Why can't ALPA mandate the vote? Make voting a requirement, just like paying dues is a requirement?

 

[PCL_128]

I asked another question before... Why can't ALPA mandate the vote? Make voting a requirement, just like paying dues is a requirement?

The simple act of voting isn't enough. It has to be informed voting. ALPA can try to "force" pilots to vote, but ALPA can't force people to educate themselves on the issues and the candidates. What worth is a vote if it is an uneducated one? I won't speak for Rez, but as for me, I'm not just asking people to vote, I'm asking people to really take ownership of their careers. The simple act of picking up the phone and voting once or twice a year doesn't cut it. You have to study the issues and talk to the candidates. You have to know your Constitution & By-Laws and Admin Manual. You have to understand how the structure of the union and the US Government work. All of this is already within reach of the members, but they don't want to reach for it. Unfortunately, that is what it takes for real change.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That is precisely the problem with ALPA right now, particularly at FedEx now that we have Agency shop, they are simply imposing a tax on the pilots and then going off and doing what they will with the money.

Funny.... you didn't have the choice to be an American... you just were at birth.... but that is a different story...

You seem to have trouble grasping the concept of choice and free will.

No one forced you to accept employment at FX. and through all the changes at FX, (Flying Tigers, ALPA, FPA, ALPA) no one forced you to stay.

Yet, you seem to have issues with others...for the choices you made.

Despite PCL's and Rez's rants, ALPA is not the government, it is an organization that was formed to look after the best interests of its members.

When ALPA was formed, pilots gave Behnke thier resignation letters.... He carried that stack of letters when he delt with management, ready to submit if needed.

Has today's membership done anything so bold? They couldn't even show up in May '07 for a rally on the Mall in DC.

Such an organization should SERVE its membership and provide a value or service of some sort for the dues they collect.

Funny... I think it should be the other way around. I think each member should serve the profession. Unions are only the vehicle or methodology in which we serve the members.

As a professional servant what I need are resources and tools to get the job done. The union provides that.

If you look at the definitions of professional:

One who serves.
For the betterment of others.
A code of ethics.
A profession is done when a service is conducted...

They are not doing that right now, but thanks to the fact that they can still collect their tax (err dues), there is very little we can do about it.

No, the membership isn't doing it right now. The membership has lost its way and only till they find it can they effectively call out the leadership and insist on better performance.

How long are you going to wait for your knight in shining armour? Hope is not an effective plan.

Dues? If you don't want to pay dues... then don't. It is simply your choice to do so or not. Why is that difficult?

ALPA has forgotten the service part, and Rex and PCL seem to think that it is your fault because you didn't go to a union meeting.

What responsibilities does the membership have? No one has yet to answer this question......

Anyone?

Ok Rez, I mean PCL. I guess I should have said there is nothing I can do about it, since I do all of those things you two harp on everybody for not doing.

That would be.....your choice...

Fine. You guys keep up the fight against apathy, I'll continue to rail against ALPA National and my MEC when they disregard the will of those who DO participate.

In the end..... will your efforts be effective? Have you gotten results?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well said FalconJet-
The reason i keep asking if you've read Atlas Shrugged is because i think you have some assumptions of what money is.

My money IS my time. It IS my energy, and it IS my effort.

Is ALPA or unions or volunteer democracies obligated to Atlas Shrugged? respectfully.... That is a connection that you made between a book and your $$$ and ALPA..

You make it sound like the organization taking that money- with which i have no choice

You do have choice. When you decided to become a professional pilot and applied to an ALPA represented carrier... you chose.

Like moving to a new town... you accept the local laws.

but to give should not be responsible for that. I have to think that is one of the main reasons people have become disenchanted with it.

I don't doubt how the membership feels. Thier perception is thier reality. But is thier reality accurate? Are thier expectations real?

Where did your ideas and expectations about ALPA come from?

Don't confuse me with the JoeMerchants of the world- that's not me, but ALPA is a road that has been traveled a long time-- i'm a young guy and you're saying you have no answer to why we have a national union set up the way we do.

I have been quite surprised at some of the old school thinking that exist at ALPA. I for one expected ALPA to be more advanced than it is.... but it isn't. So I realize the work starts further back than I had anticipated... but that doesn't mean I call ALPA fubar because my expectations weren't met.

Is it odd that i would expect the older generation to know such a basic question. If I were king of alpa i could give you lots of opinions and strategies that i think would work- but i'm trying to figure out what is, not what i would like it to be.

Agreed! Such is the ineffeciencies of our volunteer organization....

We could get rid of the volunteers... but how much would it cost to pay staffers to do ALL the volunteer work.

Of course at that point, you could demand performance for your dues money... all 5%, or 10% or whatever the high dues rate was....

But until we shuck the volunteer system and pay MORE dues the only thing you can do is seek to understand, man up and volunteer or simply support....

Trashing the guys that are volunteering is like beating up residents at the old folks home... Uncool.

Since you're into my opinion- I will again give you the advice that Leaders do NOT blame those they lead.

Agreed. I am not a leader. I am a fellow pilot who is volunteering....taking offense to those who do nothing while I do all the work.

Liken it to the guys that go to WalMart to piece together thier uniforms... You went out and paid the money for the correct company uniform. You keep it clean so when you wear it you represent the profession well. Then comes along this guy with black cotton pants, black sneakers, a cheap black leather jacket with a black polar tec vest underneath...

By DEFINITION they take responsibility. Your posts though intended to spark the membership and guilt them into participation have the opposite effect. You are in fact helping to create the situation that you complain about...

Again and again... what responsibilities does the membership have? Why is this so difficult to highlight, quote and reply?

Look man... I am not responsibile for your career expectations. If you want to complain that ALPA suxs... then go for it. It is your career. I rarely start threads. I only reply. I reply to the guys that get on here and complain that ALPA sucks. When I don't satisfy their need to be understood and validated.. they get pissed. Maybe they are like women... they don't want answers, they just want to be understood. If you want to know how to make your career better, it is possible... if you just want vent... then note a disclaimer....

which is true about most forms of complaint (my own about ALPA leadership included). We have a cycle going on here-- if i promise to look in the mirror= will you agree to do the same?

Sure... I'll look in the mirror... if I tell you that ALPA sucks and the leadership sucks will you do for your career what you don't do now....??

Seriously... what do you want from me... again.. I only reply to post.....to guys that are pissed cause their expectations are not met.... If I say.. you're right...ALPA sucks... then they get validated, even more angry and regress even more...

I asked another question before... Why can't ALPA mandate the vote? Make voting a requirement, just like paying dues is a requirement?

hmmm.. I thought I answered it...

Because it would invalidate democracy. You know....free will.