Age 65 Stinks

[fob727]

Flying since 1969 and still doesn't have enough money to retire. What a sad situation.

AA767AV8TOR

That's it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with him enjoying his job and still able to do skillfully.

The real reason, I bet; is that he doesn't want to give his job to self-entitled crybabies like flopgut.

 

[Flopgut]

That's it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with him enjoying his job and still able to do skillfully.

The real reason, I bet; is that he doesn't want to give his job to self-entitled crybabies like flopgut.

K. Why don't you explain this:

Forced off the 747 back to the DC8, then furloughed by FTL out of seniority. Recalled 6 months later after a settlement.

This guy gets a "settlement" after something occurs to his seniority. Hmmm. I asked him to elaborate but he hasn't so maybe I'm on his ignore list. But it's interesting that a "settlement" is a proper thing for him and not the least bit "self-entitled". However, to suggest the same for today's junior, seniority marginalized pilot is equivilent to being a "crybaby"? Where do you come up with that?

I think we have an issue here that needs to go to grievance arbitration. Prater made this happen, has not followed through in seeking a way to keep 60 the retirement age norm, and has completely ignored career expectations in a scenario where that should have entered into the equation. Examine the USAir situation closely and compare the retirement age issue. You'll see that this is a pattern of behavior with John and that despite what guys like you and he believe, the legal community is not in agreement. And that if the retirement age effects were arbitrated, a windfall would not exist for guys like you, Prater or Foxhunter.

 

[The Prussian]

Are you saying that a number of military flight surgeons have any vested interest in mandatory retirement of airline pilots?

Freight Dog...

Yep...I'd put that number at one to start off with - your wife.

 

[fob727]

K. Why don't you explain this:



This guy gets a "settlement" after something occurs to his seniority. Hmmm. I asked him to elaborate but he hasn't so maybe I'm on his ignore list. But it's interesting that a "settlement" is a proper thing for him and not the least bit "self-entitled". However, to suggest the same for today's junior, seniority marginalized pilot is equivilent to being a "crybaby"? Where do you come up with that?

I think we have an issue here that needs to go to grievance arbitration. Prater made this happen, has not followed through in seeking a way to keep 60 the retirement age norm, and has completely ignored career expectations in a scenario where that should have entered into the equation. Examine the USAir situation closely and compare the retirement age issue. You'll see that this is a pattern of behavior with John and that despite what guys like you and he believe, the legal community is not in agreement. And that if the retirement age effects were arbitrated, a windfall would not exist for guys like you, Prater or Foxhunter.

I get the "crybaby" from all your pi$$ing and moaning. It's the law...get over it.

Not everyone that disagrees with your rants is over 60, I have 17 yrs. to till 65.

If you don't like what ALPA has done, get involved.

Wh care about his settlement, I know I don't.

PM me your address, I'll send you a pacifier.

 

[kwick]

Age 65 Does stink!

There should absolutely be no restriction on one's ability to sell their services,
in a free economy

 

[Freight Dog]

Freight Dog...

Yep...I'd put that number at one to start off with - your wife.

See, my wife has a little more integrity than that to begin with. Secondly, why would she even care on a personal level? I fly a large cabin bizjet making what I'd be making as a legacy captain.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The truly funniest thing about the age-60 issue is the position taken by the “get out of my seat" crowd (Flopgut, Andy, etc) that they will be retiring at age-60, notwithstanding the age change. The truth that they won't say is that that is total BS. That group will be working to age-65 or until they drop dead just like everyone else. Have you noticed that in the year and a half since the age change, no one, no one has retired "early?" Yes, they all say they plan to retire "early," even before age 60, but the fact is that they are all just like everyone else, they want and need the money. Yes, no one is going to retire at age-60 just to advance the junior pilots. What a joke that is. It's all bull $hit, that is the high and mighty who say the age-60 rule is bad for the industry.

The truth is that those who advocated and lobbied for the change should be praised for helping to allow all pilots the opportunity to work and provide for his family if that is the need. And for most of us, that is the need.

I’m waiting.

 

[Flopgut]

PM me your address, I'll send you a pacifier.

Pacifier is a lot better than what you're sucking.

 

[Flopgut]

I get the "crybaby" from all your pi$$ing and moaning. It's the law...get over it.

Yeah, it's a law, but it's also more than that. It was an event that should have triggered an order and award of seniority. It was outside the CBA and created more than one pilot for one position. Prater made it happen; Doesn't matter if it was going to [might of] anyway at some point in the future. A single event like this happens from time to time and more often than not it gets arbitrated. Forget how old any of us are and what age we all have to retire and overlay past arbitrations onto this issue where career expectations were included. This one event should have included a one time seniority correction and IMHO, the "experienced pilots" [per FAR] wouldn't win. And they shouldn't!

This event was as equally different from one that would trigger traditional furloughs (strict seniority) as it would be from an event that would get arbitrated IMHO. Factor in that Prater has clearly displayed lack of respect for career expectations and for arbitration and I think we have a case. Why not roll the dice and file a lawsuit? It can't get much more lopsided than it is?

This profession is not going to evolve by just saying "get over it". That's acting foolish.

 

[fob727]

Pacifier is a lot better than what you're sucking.

You are a class act, junior.

 

[Linedriver]

Ok, detention hall for all you name callers!

 

[john cocktosen]

The actual age is just a technicality. What pisses me off is that most of these old farts are in severe denial regarding their flying skills. Everyone knows how easy it is to get a medical. The check airman is your old buddy fred, and is even older then the guy recieving the check. These are the things that lead to accidents.

Hopefully when I'm that age I'll know when to say when. Regardless of my finances.

How many times do you have to scare the S**t out of yourself and crew before you know it's time to hang it up?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Flying skills are individual skills. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of young guys who can't fly their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[john cocktosen]

Flying skills are individual skills. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of young guys who can't fly their way out of a wet paper bag.

Don't worry, your not your not telling me anything I didn't know. And I'm sure there are many Old pilots that have excellent flying skills.

The point that I'm trying to make is that it is easy for older crew members to slip through the cracks. The "good old boy mentality" is alive and well. I have personally seen it kill a friend of mine. And I know two other Sr. pilots that had to retire after destroying airplanes. They were lucky to escape with their lives.

The FAA just put out a SAFO targeting "low time" crew members. I think that they are barking up the wrong tree. If you went and graphed Accident rate vs age, I'm guessing you would find something similar to vehicles. A high rate with new pilots, followed by a low rate with middle aged pilots, and a high rate again with old pilots. And now that the "greediest generation" occupies most pilot seats, a rise in accidents is expected.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Actually, the title of "greediest generation" (at least among pilots) seems to apply to the anti-Age 65ers.