AGE 65 Rule

[daysleeper2621]

Why do pilots want to increase the Age 60 rule? I've heard that it's being discussed in Congress right now and will probably pass, but why in the world would anyone want it to? If the retirement is changed to 65 then all that will happen is the most senior pilots making tons of money will simply stay at the top for 5 more years and every airline will remain pretty stagnant until they reach age 65 and begin retiring. Those who are furloughed since 9/11 will remain furloughed and those trying to go to a major from a regional will be stuck in their current position for 5 more years. And what do you think management is going to do when it's time to create new contracts with the pilot groups? They're going to DECREASE the pay scales since pilots can't argue that they need to be paid enough money to be able to retire at age 60 anymore and since they will be paying the most senior pilots their huge salaries for five more years. I would like to hear the positives that could come out of this new law if it passes because I just don't see any.

 

[Rotorhead1]

How little you know

First of all don't think all Pilots who reach the age of 60 want to retire. There are many pilots who enjoy their jobs as pilots and hope that the Age 60 rule is changed. I know what you want is for the Old Pilots to retire so you can finally get a flying job but you are going to have to get alot more hours and experience than you have now. I recommend you try to find a job as an Instructor Pilot and build some hours or join the military. I hope to be around for a while and hope the Age 60 rule will be lifted.

 

[charlie2]

I believe that over the last three decades or so the average life span for a man has increased quite a bit. I would think that not only is the life span increasing but the health of older men is also getting better. So if in the 1960's the retirement age for an airline pilot was 60 (presumably for health/safety reasons) then to me it makes perfect sense to increase this age. By how much I don't know but as painful as it is to us I really think it needs to happen.

 

[Birddog]

No matter what age is settled on, the debate will only subside for a while. In about 10 years or so, people will want to raise it again to 67, or 68, or 75. What is needed is real, objective tests of ability and performance verses age. Some people may be forced out at thier prime, but others are definately past ripe. Arbitrarily picking an age is the wrong way to decide.

 

[goofyleftwich]

you are a Fing idiot if you are in favor of raising the mandatory retirement age..........period

 

[Birddog]

you are a Fing idiot if you are in favor of raising the mandatory retirement age..........period

Maybe, but the issue will not go away without a fight, so be prepared to back up your opinion with some useful facts. I wouldn't count on ALPA to save the day on this one either.

 

[disillusion]

Why do so few want to change the rules in the middle of the game because they did not plan for retirement or lived above their means. We all love flying but I also have a life outside flying and will happily retire at 60 and make a slot for another pilot to fulfill his dream. I am not sure but, I believe controllers have a mandatory retirement too. Do you want a 70 year old controller vectoring you to the ILS in ATL on a bad WX day.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

No matter what age is settled on, the debate will only subside for a while. In about 10 years or so, people will want to raise it again to 67, or 68, or 75. What is needed is real, objective tests of ability and performance verses age. Some people may be forced out at thier prime, but others are definately past ripe. Arbitrarily picking an age is the wrong way to decide.

Thank you. At least there's one other person out there with some common sense.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Do you want a 70 year old controller vectoring you to the ILS in ATL on a bad WX day.

I don't care how old the controller is. I want him/her to be FIT FOR THE JOB! Age is meaningless. Let's abolish a mandatory age altogether and establish a real form of measure for capacity to perform one's job.

Are you happier having a 47 y/o controller who is unfit for duty for whatever reason than a 70 y/o fit controller?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

you are a Fing idiot if you are in favor of raising the mandatory retirement age..........period

Very nice supporting data for your opinion.

 

[stonewall]

"Fit for Duty?" Please.

I've seen more 300# captains in Hartsfield than I can shake a stick at. Hell, I KNOW they can't make it out the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** window in an emergency egress.

"Capt, you're fired because you're fat and ugly." I'd like to see what ALPA says about that. ALPA says "we want it based on ability," yet defends to the hilt anyone fired for incompetence. Another case of having it both ways for ALPA. An arbitrary age is much easier than slugging it out in court battle after court battle over who's "fit to fly."

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

An arbitrary age is much easier than slugging it out in court battle after court battle over who's "fit to fly."

So we should just do what's easiest, regardless of how archaic some rules might be. Few worthwhile endeavors are easy.

 

[Flechas]

"Fit for Duty?" Please.

I've seen more 300# captains in Hartsfield than I can shake a stick at. Hell, I KNOW they can't make it out the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** window in an emergency egress.

"Capt, you're fired because you're fat and ugly." I'd like to see what ALPA says about that. ALPA says "we want it based on ability," yet defends to the hilt anyone fired for incompetence. Another case of having it both ways for ALPA. An arbitrary age is much easier than slugging it out in court battle after court battle over who's "fit to fly."

He has a good point, ALPA would not let anybody get fired for not being fit, so having an age restriction is peobably the best way to do it, otherwise it would become a pain in the ass for everybody.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

He has a good point, ALPA would not let anybody get fired for not being fit,

People lose their medicals everyday and there's nothing ALPA can do about it. We're not talking about firings based on some chief pilots' reaction to a situation. Make the medical screening more comprehensive with some high-tech motor skill testing and your problem is solved. Make it so there's no gray area. Don't tell me it's not doable.

 

[Flechas]

People lose their medicals everyday and there's nothing ALPA can do about it. We're not talking about firings based on some chief pilots' reaction to a situation. Make the medical screening more comprehensive with some high-tech motor skill testing and your problem is solved. Make it so there's no gray area. Don't tell me it's not doable.

I guess you are right, and it is doable, as long as everything is determined based on the medical.
As far as working is concerned I'm all about changing the age limit, I would not know what to do if I didn't have a job, and 60 is becoming younger everyday.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Hey Flechas, what happened to that cool avatar you had with the big belgian-looking beer?

 

[Flechas]

This one is just temporary, because of this

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=52777&highlight=penguins

 

[slowto250]

Why do so few want to change the rules in the middle of the game because they did not plan for retirement or lived above their means. We all love flying but I also have a life outside flying and will happily retire at 60 and make a slot for another pilot to fulfill his dream. I am not sure but, I believe controllers have a mandatory retirement too. Do you want a 70 year old controller vectoring you to the ILS in ATL on a bad WX day.

You are correct. FAA is considering raising the mandatory retirement age for controllers (currently set at 56 ). Like pilots, I suspect most of the controllers nearing retirement are very close to being at the top of their game. Rather cruel, but as in life, just when you finally get it all figured out....it's too late !

The current standards ARE far too arbitrary. Reaction times and other physiological minutae don't tell the whole story. Hell, I don't need to be as quick on the draw as I was 10 years ago, as hopefully I fly a little smarter. Think proactive, not reactive.

I fly with a couple of guys who are a little long in the tooth. I find that what makes them less proficient is their diminished analytical thinking, not razor sharp reflexes. As others have already stated; it varies widely from one to another.

I'd sooner embrace a mandatory retirement age for drivers. They pose a bigger threat in my estimation. Have you negotiated the blue hair traffic maze in south Florida lately ?

 

[Flechas]

There you go, those penguins were not too popular!!

BTW Huge, In june I'm gonna try the advice you sent me a while ago.
I may even have a few additions.

 

[§kyye Candy]

I believe that over the last three decades or so the average life span for a man has increased quite a bit. I would think that not only is the life span increasing but the health of older men is also getting better. So if in the 1960's the retirement age for an airline pilot was 60 (presumably for health/safety reasons) then to me it makes perfect sense to increase this age. By how much I don't know but as painful as it is to us I really think it needs to happen.

Over the last three decades or so the average career PAY has changed too. For a 121 pilot it has substantially DECREASED. Which of course paves the way perfectly for scope changes, etc. "After all..." the airlines will argue, "now that you have more TIME over your career to make money.... do we really need to have this sort of pay structure?" Then they have the pilot group right where they want them for even further concessions.

On the other hand, the guys who have had a nice long career already, who have reaped the rewards of the industry in it's heyday and sold out all the younger guys coming in as jr. FO's through their contract negotiations, probably want to see a little bigger pension check. Right... go ahead... raise the age.