Age 21 Rule?

[Whataburger]

Since there is an impending pilot shortage should we push to get the ATP min age down to 21? If you can drink, vote, and get drafted, why can't ya be a Capt of an airplane? It ain't rocket surgery.

 

[Mookie]

just snarfed my Diet Coke all over the screen...


yeah, ALPA...what the hell??? why not???:laugh:

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'm way past 23, but I sure was a lot more mature at 23 than I was at 21.

Not by much though!

 

[Smarta$$]

no.....................

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Considering that I didnt begin to accrue certificates until I was 26ish, at 21 I personally would NOT have been in any position to command a 121 RJ full of 50-100 people. Too much of a joker and "skater" (as in skating through life) in my early 20's to be serious enough to make a PA. The thought almost makes me laugh. Then again, I was actually very mature and responsible in some ways back then but have grown more silly in the last few years.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

BTW, those years were spent in college.

Why is everyone so bent on not getting a degree in lieu of a seniority number. There's more to learn in life than flying. You might actually come across educated and full of wonderful tales as a graduate.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm way past 23, but I sure was a lot more mature at 23 than I was at 21.

Yeah, but you were also a lot less likely to need a colostomy bag at 21 than 65. If the half-dead geezers can fly in the left seat, why not the kids? (I'm only half joking)

 

[Superpilot92]

Do any of you believe that the same "Fair Treatment" fighters are going to fight for the guys at the bottom? That should be a sign to all that this 65 thing had NOTHING to do with being "FAIR". Why not take the age 23 restriction off? Its age discrimination!! If a guy can pas a medical he can fly past 60; if a pilot can pass the ATP ride at 21 why not? Just try and get these guys to fight for that? I would put all my chips on the fact that nothing would ever be done about that Discriminating Age!!

 

[NoJoy]

Very true. A 21 year old fo has to fly to ATP standards for their PC and SIC Type. Some people are more mature than others at any age.

 

[mesaba13]

Based on my experience with the new hires in our right seats, I dont think this would be a good idea!

My observations over the last few months with the youngsters are as follows:

-Leveling off and not remembering to bring up the power levers because they are too busy talking about upgrading on their 23 birthday.

-Their leg, climbing into serious icing while chatting away about their upgrade oblivious to the fact that we should probably turn on some engine anti-ice, boots, and maybe change climb rate and or altitude before we fall out of the sky.

-Asking them their opionion about anything in our FOM and getting the response "I didnt pay attention to that in class much but come on, when am I gonna get that upgrade"

With that said they are hiring a fine bunch of young people here, with the only issue being simple maturity, and in time they will make great captains. With that said I would put a COUPLE of our 20 year olds in the left seat and throw my family in the back without a second thought.

 

[Whataburger]

Based on my experience with the new hires in our right seats, I dont think this would be a good idea!

My observations over the last few months with the youngsters are as follows:

-Leveling off and not remembering to bring up the power levers because they are too busy talking about upgrading on their 23 birthday.

-Their leg, climbing into serious icing while chatting away about their upgrade oblivious to the fact that we should probably turn on some engine anti-ice, boots, and maybe change climb rate and or altitude before we fall out of the sky.

-Asking them their opionion about anything in our FOM and getting the response "I didnt pay attention to that in class much but come on, when am I gonna get that upgrade"

With that said they are hiring a fine bunch of young people here, with the only issue being simple maturity, and in time they will make great captains. With that said I would put a COUPLE of our 20 year olds in the left seat and throw my family in the back without a second thought.

Old Capts make the same screw-ups except the reason is that they are (A) Sleeping more than "Flash" on the "Dukes" or (B) trying to find which pair of glasses to put on.

 

[DashTrash400]

...and have more money to lobby ALPA and/or congress...

 

[ROSWELL41]

Age 23 is discrimination

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Why not get rid of all age discrimination in aviation for pilots? We can let all pilots get their ATP and check out as captains for Part 121 at any age. And at the same time we could get rid of the age-65 rule! That is most certainly age discrimination. Let all pilots fly as long as they can pass all the medical tests and check-rides. What do you think? This thread is on to something!

Old enough to vote, drink and fight is certainly a qualification to be a 121 captain! Yes it is. I agree.

 

[PCL_128]

You know, there's one silver lining in this whole thing: knowing that UndauntedFlyer got booted out before the rule changed. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[ableone]

Since there is an impending pilot shortage should we push to get the ATP min age down to 21? If you can drink, vote, and get drafted, why can't ya be a Capt of an airplane? It ain't rocket surgery.

THAT was hilarious.

Why not, you are right flying an airliner ain't rocket surgery. Besides every year I see another story on the local new about the latest kid trying to break the record for the youngest pilot to fly across the state/country/atlantic/street. Clearly if these kids can do it a 21 year old or for that matter an eighteen year old should be able to be a captain.

Anybody remember the first season of the old NBC show Wings? They had a sixteen year old 402 captain who flew trips when he was not in high school. It was actually pretty funny.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Deleted by Undaunted Flyer

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

You know, there's one silver lining in this whole thing: knowing that UndauntedFlyer got booted out before the rule changed. It's a beautiful thing.

My greatest pleasure is seeing that the law has changed so that everone has his/her choice as to whether to fly or quit. Personally I am not retired, just doing other things and not flying the all-nighters 5-times per month. Life is really much better in terms of quality of life. I'm still very much in aviation now, just as I have always been.

So please, you are mistaken if you feel a degree of pleasure thinking I am some how miserable. It is to the contary, the new opportunities I have taken advantage of in my professional and personal life makes my life better than ever and especially when I read the selfish posts of the ecco boomers regarding this issue.

There is a degree of "serves you right" in the fact that the ones on this board who screamed the loudest are now stuck with 5-years of stagnation.

 

[PCL_128]

So please, you are mistaken if you feel a degree of pleasure thinking I am so how miserable.

I don't want you miserable at all, just out of the seat that was no longer rightfully yours. At least one more FO got to upgrade before you selfish geezers screwed over the rest of them.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I don't want you miserable at all, just out of the seat that was no longer rightfully yours. At least one more FO got to upgrade before you selfish geezers screwed over the rest of them.

So does that mean that from now on every pilot who flies past age 60 will be a "selfish geezer?"

Will that include you when the time comes?

 

[Whataburger]

Old enough to vote, drink and fight is certainly a qualification to be a 121 captain! Yes it is. I agree.

It was at the commuters!

 

[PCL_128]

So does that mean that from now on every pilot who flies past age 60 will be a "selfish geezer?"

Will that include you when the time comes?

I have no intention to fly past 60, but I certainly won't be able to blame today's FOs for working past 60 in the future because they'll have to work those extra five years just to make up for the money that you stole from them.

 

[Capt.LongThrust]

My greatest pleasure is seeing that the law has changed so that everone has his/her choice as to whether to fly or quit. Personally I am not retired, just doing other things and not flying the all-nighters 5-times per month. Life is really much better in terms of quality of life. I'm still very much in aviation now, just as I have always been.

So please, you are mistaken if you feel a degree of pleasure thinking I am some how miserable. It is to the contary, the new opportunities I have taken advantage of in my professional and personal life makes my life better than ever and especially when I read the selfish posts of the ecco boomers regarding this issue.

There is a degree of "serves you right" in the fact that the ones on this board who screamed the loudest are now stuck with 5-years of stagnation.

Please. You are the same guy on the $hitter strokin it to a new Pro-Pilot mag. Get a life. As far as 5 years of stagnation? I am sure enough of them will stroke out making it more like 3.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I have no intention to fly past 60, but I certainly won't be able to blame today's FOs for working past 60 in the future because they'll have to work those extra five years just to make up for the money that you stole from them.

Please.....So it's OK for todays f/O's to work past age 60 because they need to, but it isn't OK for a guy who needs the money to work past age 60 now. Are you advocating a financial report must be filed and approved by the F/I board or the union to allow a person to fly past age 60 then. That seems to be what you are saying!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Neil Armstrong was 19-21 when he became a fighter ace in the Korean War.

We can have 21 year old Captains... the problem is who is going to pay for the extensive training program.

Managmenet spending money on training for pilots and raising the hourly rate is like french kissing your grandmother.

 

[pjenkin12000]

I was a Lear 25 Cptn. at age 22 for a part 91 company with 1600 TOTAL TIME!!! I could have done it just as well at 21. If any of you have flown a ''20'' series Lear Jet, you would know that since I am still alive that it can be done at 21. I am 25 now and I am Chief pilot for a fortune 1000 company. It all depends on the person and there maturity level. I think if you get a 21 year old with the right flight experience and not just flying in the pattern in a 172 and he can fly to ATP standards in a jet, he's ok in my book. I was right seat in a Lear Jet with 250 hours total time though so I got the experience I needed by the age of 22.

 

[TXDA2000]

Took a 135 ride in a BE80 at 19 with a little over 1200 hours.

Making a living at that age flying boxes 5-6 days a week. Wouldn't have made a difference to me if people were in the back.

 

[PCL_128]

Please.....So it's OK for todays f/O's to work past age 60 because they need to, but it isn't OK for a guy who needs the money to work past age 60 now.

No, I'm telling you that there's a big difference between the two situations. In the case of the geezers right now, they changed the rules mid stream and stole directly from their fellow pilots in order to benefit themselves. In the case of today's FOs when they are in the left seat approaching age 60 years from now, the guys pulling gear for them and waiting for their upgrades will have started their careers under the age-65 rule and will have nothing stolen from them by having Captains fly until 65. Big difference.

Are you advocating a financial report must be filed and approved by the F/I board or the union to allow a person to fly past age 60 then. That seems to be what you are saying!

No, I'm advocating that you get a life and realize that flying a piece of aluminum through the air at the wee hours of the morning isn't the way to spend your twilight years.

 

[Whataburger]

You're down by 1 run in the bottom of the ninth. There are two outs. You cry to the umps to add an inning? You went in knowing their was 9 innings. Belly aching and crying "poor me" should have fallen on deaf ears. If your life sucked, you forgot to save money, or had 3 wives.........ITS YOUR FAULT. Oh yea, these guys stayed flying because they love flying. That's it. And they say today's kids are the ME generations. The ME generation was born 58 years ago.

 

[skydash]

"You know, there's one silver lining in this whole thing: knowing that UndauntedFlyer got booted out before the rule changed. It's a beautiful thing."

Dude,you don't have to worry about flying past 60 because your hateful outlook on life in general(post age 65 rule) and towards those who supported it will consume you.Go outside and get some fresh air.