AF vs. the grunts

[DaveGriffin]

Sure thing. And there is no booze on CVN's either.

 

[CCDiscoB]

No really, there is absolutely no booze. No one has the balls to even attempt to sneak any in either. Everyone who is caught is severely punished. The AF is hard over on that issue.

The Navy and Marines get away with more. I don’t know how they do it. I remember back in Desert Storm, we shared the barracks with the Marines. We lived upstairs and they were downstairs. We were routinely inspected and warned about booze, meanwhile the Marines had a fully stocked bar, blatantly out in the open.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Thanks for your info. I stand corrected and retract my PSAB happy hour comment.

In the Navy we have a saying "You rate what you get away with."

Although in my opinion there should be a happy hour at PSAB no matter what the rules say. I guess there were a few State Department weenies who might show up unannounced. They are the type that would go ballistic if they see any violation of Saudi law.

 

[Skyrunner]

Dave G

Hey Dave,

I think I may be confusing you with someone else. I'm sorry if I am. Did you go to school in Santa Barbara in 1986? If so, PM me. Take care.

SR

 

[DaveGriffin]

Sorry Skyrunner, it wasn't me.
Regards

 

[CCDiscoB]

It's hard, and unfair to compare the air war in Afghanistan, to any other war. Expecting to have CAS on call, when the average sortie durations to and from Afghanistan over 10 hours, is unrealistic. I understand that the A-10s do have a FOB in country now.

If the AF wasn't committed to CAS there wouldn’t be any FACs in the Army Battalions.

Back when the AF was going to get rid of the A-10s the Army got wind and stated that they were going to take over the mission. The AF realized that meant the Army would be flying fixed wing combat aircraft, and suddenly the A-10s were no longer on the hit list.

 

[chawbein]

CCDiscoB -

What does your username mean?? I've been trying to figure it out and can't come up with anything.

 

[CCDiscoB]

It means when you come looking for me, you won't find me.

Actually it's a old nick name. Not current. CC is short for Commander.

 

[DaveGriffin]

It's hard, and unfair to compare the air war in Afghanistan, to any other war. Expecting to have CAS on call, when the average sortie durations to and from Afghanistan over 10 hours, is unrealistic. I understand that the A-10s do have a FOB in country now.

If the AF wasn't committed to CAS there wouldn’t be any FACs in the Army Battalions.

Back when the AF was going to get rid of the A-10s the Army got wind and stated that they were going to take over the mission. The AF realized that meant the Army would be flying fixed wing combat aircraft, and suddenly the A-10s were no longer on the hit list.

CCDiscoB;

It is absolutely fair to ask that air assets support the ground assets, no matter what war we find ourselves engaged in.

Here is my assessment of the facts for your review and comment.

1. The use of SpecOps is increasing at an exponential rate. It dominated our strategy in Afghanistan and will in Iraq. Their use was only beginning in the Gulf War.

2. SpecOps is no more revolutionary than airborne was to WWII and AirCav was to Vietnam.

3. Very simply, SpecOps is small unit, highly mobile strategy that attacks specific enemy targets.

4. The BIG problem is that small units travel light and cannot hump much firepower. When they find themselves in an extended firefight, even with superior fire discipline and marksmanship, if they do not defeat the enemy or break contact quickly, they are soon out of ammo. If they find themselves pitted against a superior force it is only their endurance and ability to escape detection that can save their a$$es, if they are lucky. US air superiority is crucial to their survival and success.

5. If we are going to be using SpecOps in the field then let’s support them. Robert’s Ridge is a great example.

6.The Carrier Strike Forces (fixed wing and rotary), Army helo pilots and SOW AF have demonstrated their willingness to support the grunts in the field.

7. It is the non-SOW AF, in my humble opinion, that doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about fighting men in other Branches.

8. The AF bomber jocks do not consider the grunts on the ground a part of the team and are not very concerned if they get waxed.

9. The lightly armed SpecOps units can find themselves in deep sh*t, due to bad intelligence (don’t get me going on this topic) and will require the support of any available air assets to get home in one piece.

10. Non-SOW AF air assets are very difficult to acquire, even though they may be in the immediate AO.

11. All I’m looking for is a good reason to buy an F-15 pilot a beer. So far there hasn’t been one.

 

[Stump]

Dave,

Let me assure you that there is a core group of about 350 of us Hog Drivers that have been training for CAS (and almost exclusively CAS) since mid-78. We've been pushing on this noodle for almost 25 years now and some folks in very high places are finally starting to listen. That is why there are Hogs in country right now. The rest of the bomb-dropping Air Force has had a serious reality check over the past 13 months and are slowly coming around. It is a very difficult education process. Cheers.

Stump
"CAS is a mindset more than a mission"