Aero Jet Services out of Scottsdale, AZ

[johnsonrod]

I have read the previous posts - most were quite negative. I am not looking at AJS but I have a friend who wants to move back to the area and he has some corporate experience.

Check out www.aerojetservices.com. I have read about the poor pay, training bonds, tough QOL, but I'd like to get a few more specifics from people in the know (at least estimates).

So, excluding the training bond issue, here are a few questions regarding AJS (looks like they have added a few airplanes lately - up to 13 airplanes now):

1. What are FO newhire salary estimates (maybe salary ranges) for the Lear, Hawker and Gulfstream fleets? I've read that the salaries are low, but estimates would be helpfu.

2. What are schedules like for newhires? How many days off per month could you expect?

3. Do pilots fly multiple aircraft types (e.g., Lear 45 and the G100 or Gulfstream) or just one aircraft type?

4. How often are pilots hired directly into the Gulfstreams vs. starting in the Lears and progressing to the Gulfstreams?

And before you launch into all of the negatives like the other threads, just spare us for now. I am just looking for some data for a buddy of mine who wants to break into the PHX/SDL market.

Thanks - PMs are welcome too.

 

[hawkerflyer]

Check your PMs

 

[sqwkvfr]

Why is it that everytime someone posts looking for info on operators out of SDL or the Phoenix area, it's always exchanged in a PM?

Does anyone have any good info on any non-airline gigs in the area....info that doesn't have to be whispered?

 

[avbug]

I turned down a job with them this spring. The pay offered was fifty for a LR35 Captain. I believe the F/O pay was something like thirty grand or so. I was offered a captain position.

If you don't want to hear the negatives, then there's not much to say.

I can tell you why I didn't take the job, and that's about it.

They hire into the equipment where they have a need. I happened to spend some time talking with some of their pilots a few days, several of whom were F/O's (I didn't ask their wage currently), and a couple of former pilots, too. All expressed the same views. I had happened to contact them when they were looking for a Lear captain, and that's what was offered. Had they been looking for something else, perhaps I would have been offered that, but I can't say. The Director of Operations did allow that he prefers to promote from within, and that pilots moving from one aircraft to another is what they want to happen.

Bear in mind that if you just took out a loan (it's not just a bond) for recurrent for say, ten grand, then get upgraded to the gulfstream, you need to take out and carry a second loan for the full training price too. They will cosign and gaurantee the loan, but it's still in your name. Get fired, get laid off, get hurt, it's still in your name. Not a bond. A loan for the full price. That change from one airplane to another could cost you fifty grand or more, and they require that you pay it every single reurrent...not just the initial training. You're always in debt there.

The low wage was one reason I didn't take it. The loan requirement I found ackward and unusual and unpallatable. I refused the job on that basis, too. The schedule was no schedule; it was explained to me as a 135 schedule of on call 24/7, with possible time off when they could allow. I was also told point blank in the interview that they are looking for pilots who are willing to bend the rules, fly with inop equipment when necessary to get the job done, who don't mind overstepping duty times now and again...when an employer tells me in the interview chair that he wants me to fly illegally, it's time for someone else to sit there. Not gonna do it. But you don't want to hear that.

He wanted me to move...get rid of my house and move so I could be 45 minutes from SDL airport...move to knock fifteen minutes off the commute, and he expected that response time to be available around the clock. For fifty grand and someone dumb enough to take out a loan every six months to finance their own recurrent training. You don't want to hear that either, but it's all I've got, having been offered the job and having turned it down.

The people I met were quite nice. I went to lunch with the company principals, all were coordial, professional, polite.

They also wanted someone who could work on the airplane as well as fly it. Enough is enough.

 

[G100driver]

Sounds like a scumbag outfit. Better tell your friend to find a good job at Great Lakes if he/she is considering this outfit!

 

[On Your Six]

I am surprised anyone would stay at AJS beyond their training contract. Sounds like a POS operation and yet they continue to grow and add pilots....

 

[PonchoMan]

I am surprised anyone would stay at AJS beyond their training contract. Sounds like a POS operation and yet they continue to grow and add pilots....

The (aviation)world is full of idiots. It is good to see this info out there. Thanks AVBUG.

 

[keebird]

I was offered a Hawker PIC position this summer and had the same experience as Avbug, although the pay I was offered was not too bad. After several months of unemployment and a hungry family to feed, I was almost desperate to earn a paycheck again...I ended up not just saying no, but hell no to the job they offered, as every pilot with an ounce of self respect ought to do.

That insane 6 monthly training loan crap took the cake...I have never heard of any other, even the ********************tiest operator come up with a whopper like that. You pay not just for the type or initial indoc, but every 6 months for as long as you work for the company.

On overnights they pay you a per diem, I think it was $200, which is supposed to cover everything, including hotel room and rental car. If you can't find a hotel room for less than $200 the difference comes out your own pocket! They tried to put a positive spin on it saying that their pilots bag a lot of extra cash by staying and eating cheap most of the time, and not spend the full per diem. It was more of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink: Try and sleep on the airplane or the FBO couch, or at least share a hotel room.

Aero Jet Services - I wouldn't touch that turd with a ten foot pole.

 

[johnsonrod]

I was offered a Hawker PIC position this summer and had the same experience as Avbug, although the pay I was offered was not too bad. After several months of unemployment and a hungry family to feed, I was almost desperate to earn a paycheck again...I ended up not just saying no, but hell no to the job they offered, as every pilot with an ounce of self respect ought to do.

That insane 6 monthly training loan crap took the cake...I have never heard of any other, even the ********************tiest operator come up with a whopper like that. You pay not just for the type or initial indoc, but every 6 months for as long as you work for the company.

On overnights they pay you a per diem, I think it was $200, which is supposed to cover everything, including hotel room and rental car. If you can't find a hotel room for less than $200 the difference comes out your own pocket! They tried to put a positive spin on it saying that their pilots bag a lot of extra cash by staying and eating cheap most of the time, and not spend the full per diem. It was more of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink: Try and sleep on the airplane or the FBO couch, or at least share a hotel room.

Aero Jet Services - I wouldn't touch that turd with a ten foot pole.

Wow - that's all I needed to hear (the hotel info). Sound like a bunch of scumbags to me.............. I will advise my buddy to just go fractional.

 

[AZ Typed]

Why is it that everytime someone posts looking for info on operators out of SDL or the Phoenix area, it's always exchanged in a PM?

Does anyone have any good info on any non-airline gigs in the area....info that doesn't have to be whispered?

Scottsdale is very hush hush. The very few good gigs there are who you know. Breaking in from the outside is very tough and companies like AJS are a way to break in. It seems the pilot community likes to keep all the gravy gigs for themselves...so break into SDL and within a few years if you play your cards right you can find one of those great gigs in SDL.