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Aerial Firefighting's current state????

  • Thread starter Thread starter enigma
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enigma

good ol boy
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,279
Hey Avbug, or any other knowledgeable pilot, what is the current state of the water bomber industry? What are you flying? Have any of the older aircraft been returned to the air after last years losses?

Another thread started going toward this topic, but I don't want to hijack that one, so I've started a new one.

regards,
enigma
 
Yeah,
I read the Martin Mars' were retired, but read that they are back in business. Is that true? What a very cool airplane.

Ah, to be young and flying for a living, Aerial Applicator, Fire Fighting, it wouldn't matter. Just not CFI, I'd probably throw them out of the plane.
 
Canada is the only country in North America flying the Marten Mars (sp?). In the Pacific Northwest I have seen DC 3,6,7, P-3, P2V's, PBY's (the PB4Y's and C-130's were retired last year I believe) and some Single Engine Air Attack planes. Canada is also flying some old Convairs and I heard that Evergreen Int'l is looking at making a B747 into an Aerial Bomber. For pictures check out airtanker.com (I think), they have pictures and data on the aircraft.
Hope this helps.
 
This year the PB4Y-2's didn't return, and neither did the C-130A's. One C-130A has been approved and is in France on a contract doing fire (125 hours in the past 17 days), but none in this country.

That has left (I believe) 33 heavy tankers, which include DC-4's, DC-6, DC-7, P2V-5, P2V-7, SP2H, and P-3A aircraft in the federal inventory. Additionally, a number of Type IV tankers, also known as SEATs (Single Engine Air Tankers) are in service. These include Air Tractor AT-802F's, Thrush S2R's, and PZL M-18 Dromaders in piston and turbine configurations. Additional resources include a wide variety of helicopters, and support aircraft.

Air attack aircraft are employed actively in fire patrol, aerial support reconaissance, IR surveillance, photography, etc. These are aircraft such as Twin Commanders, Barons, etc. Various agencies also employ aircraft in these roles, including Barons, 0-2's, OV-10's, King-air's etc.

The USFS and BLM provide Leadplanes and Air Supervision Modules (ASM's) in the form of Barons and King-air's. A number of these were retired this year as they've reached their airframe life over the fire. Suitable replacements are being sought. Some smoke jump ships were retired this year.

California Department of Forestry (CDF) also operates the S-2 in piston and turbine configurations, with the fleet now becoming all turbine.

This year the biggest change was an emphasis on strict use of tankers as only initial attack platforms, and use for protection of lives and property (structural). This implied that tanker ops would only be conducted in the initial fire stages, rather than fighting fire on an extended basis. This quickly became untennable, and I've been used for both initial attack and line building operations this year.

Fire operations continue as always, with a few changes. Heavy tankers are operating at reduced loadings presently, while Type IV's (SEATs) are still being required to carry out the "contract load." Pilot discretion is always given in mitigating these requirements; a pilot may always download as necessary, but never increase the loading.

I'm not aware of any PB2Y's or PB5Y's flying (catalinas or canso's) in the United States. As far as I know, the last one in service crashed in Southern California about six years ago while I was flying overhead, during a going fire.

In several areas Canadian CL215 and CL415 aircraft are also working, including canadian registered aircraft flying out of US bases, and state or government owned/leased aircraft.

A few changes have been instituted for national security reasons. Additional training and certification items have been made in the interest of safety, including the addition of a SEAT "flatrock university" (named after the fictitious training operation in the movie "always") on an annual basis. I expect to see more of such changes in the future.

Since 9/11 we have seen a slight increase in accidents as a result of primarily furloughed airline pilots trying to get a foot in the door. Many operators, and some insurance, won't touch pilots with an airline background, in this work, now. How that pans out remains to be seen.

My primarily contract this year has been in an area of largely desert, high desert, alpine, deciduous, and various urban interface. This year as drought conditions have continued to increase, we've seen a triple increase in the explosive value of most fuels in the district and general area, with typical burn values and flame lengths increasing by a factor of at least three. We've seen faster, hotter, and more explosive fires this year. For an inexplicable reason, we've also seen what appears to be an increase in arson.

I've been on a number of single tree initial attack dispatches this year in which we stopped it before it had a chance to go anywhere. Unfortunately, I've also been on some very violent and fast-moving fires that tapped out resources completely, and took homes and threatened lives.

As a result, I don't see any decrease in the demand for fire ops, or the use of aircraft on those operations.
 
Regarding the PB2Y's, there is one stationed out of Deer Park, near Spokane, WA - Tanker 85. He worked with us on the Black Canyon, Togo and a couple other smaller fires within the last two weeks.
Avbug - which tanker are you flying? I have been doing Recon and Air Attack in the Colville NF, lately I have worked with Tanker 66, 27, 00 and Lead 77 and 69 - all good guys and pilots.
Dawg
 
avbug, how does one get into aerial firefighting? I assume people with time-in-type of some of those aircraft can be difficult. What are the mins (if published or common) for both the single-seat and the heavies?

Sounds like interesting, yet dangerous work. How did you get into it avbug? I live close to and fly out of Jeffco airport, northwest of Denver. We had a tanker base up here for awhile -- I believe they are remodeling it or doing some sort of work on it this summer.
 

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