advice....

[celloman]

I am in a catch 22 I guess you might say.....



One of my main goals in aviation is to fly corporate. As I look at my resume the glairing problem is a lack of turbine time.



Currently I work as a flight instructor and charter pilot. I am building plenty of multi time but there is no turbine time in the foreseeable future. The problem I am running into is that most employers are looking for someone with turbine experience.



Anyone have any suggestions on how I might go about getting a job that will help me gain this experience?



Thanks for your time!



celloman

 

[2000flyer]

Get to know as many pilots, chief pilots, flight department managers, etc., as you can. A tremendous amount of hiring in corporate aviation is word of mouth and who you know (or who knows you). Many will advertise they want ### turbine and ### in type. Those, in many cases, are the "ideal" qualifications. Chief Pilot John Doe knows you from chatting at the FBO and you're one step closer than anyone else.

Keep building time in the process and don't aim too high (G4, Challenger, etc.) or you'll get disappointed quickly. Thats not to say it couldn't happen if you know the right folks. Work hard on the turboprop operators and Citation operators. IMO, they'll be your best place to start and build experience.

Simply put, get to know as many people as you can! By that I mean, truly get to know them. Don't walk up hand extended saying "hey, I'm looking for work!" Idle chat that leads to "industry hiring" to what you're eventually interested in. You know the drill.

Good luck!

2000Flyer

 

[captb]

Another way is to try to work for a fractional or part 135 company that has turbine equiptment. Corporate and airlines are hiring again and 135 companies (I'm assuming fractionals also) are starting to hurt for pilots.


If you really want corporate, stay away from airline. If they see airline on your resume, your chances go down. But like the last person said, your best bet is to talk to and stay in touch with as many people as you can ( even if they are line personnel or mechanics for a corporation.)

 

[puddlejumper]

Try Your Local Dropzone

With your C206 experience, look around for some skydiving outfits. Most will start you off in a C182 or C206 with eventual upgrade to a Kingair or Twin Otter. At least go out and introduce yourself to the DZO and or the jump plane pilots. There's usually an open right seat in an Otter (it's removed in most Kingairs).

Skydiving was definitely the big milestone for my flying career. Started in the 206 while flying charter in an Aztec. Once over 200 hrs multi and with some good lucky timing, I was being shown how to start the PT-6s on the Kingair. From there, I had enough turbine experience that the corporate guys would use me for unloggable SIC and I'd get to fly/log PIC on the empty and some passenger 91 legs. From there it's all about networking and being at the right place at the right time.

BTW, it's taken me 4 years since I started instructing full time to actually making a decent living flying corporate. My current gig is far from ideal, but I'd like to think I'm on track for my "real job by 35" goal.

Good luck and enjoy the ride!

-PJ

 

[FracCapt]

With your C206 experience, look around for some skydiving outfits. Most will start you off in a C182 or C206 with eventual upgrade to a Kingair or Twin Otter. At least go out and introduce yourself to the DZO and or the jump plane pilots. There's usually an open right seat in an Otter (it's removed in most Kingairs).

The availability of such jobs depend largely on the part of the country that he is in. In my neck of the woods(Florida), you'd be hard pressed to find a pilot with less than 2500 hours or so, much of it turbine, flying at any of the DZ's. Many of the DZ's lease planes from places like Fayard. The pilots come with those planes. Also, most of the DZ's I frequent have a jumper in the right seat(when it's accessible from the rear, as in a Twin Otter) because the loads are almost always 100% full. On top of that, most of the DZ's want pilots that are experienced skydivers. Deland for instance.....no pilot there that I know of has less than 4,000 jumps and 5,000 hours. At one of the DZ's we have an ex Golden Knight flying the Twin Otter.

Possibly a good place to start would be some of the larger skydiving aircraft operators, rather than individual DZ's. Fayard Enterprises is one. Paul Fayard owns a DZ called Carolina Sky Sports(www.carolinaskysports.com). They could tell you who the Chief Pilot is or who is in charge of hiring(I think it's Paul himself). There's another company called Air Express. I think they're based at Skydive Cross Keys(www.skydivecrosskeys.com). Both companies operate aircraft like Caravans, Twin Otters, CASA's, and Skyvans.

 

[av8tortype]

If you really want corporate, stay away from airline. If they see airline on your resume, your chances go down. But like the last person said, your best bet is to talk to and stay in touch with as many people as you can ( even if they are line personnel or mechanics for a corporation.)

I would think that time spent at a Part 121 operation would be beneficial to getting hired at a corporate flight department if you were honestly looking at Corp as a career and not just a paycheck while furloughed. Like you said, it also helps to network with as many people in the corp. food chain as possible.

I'm interested in HP's flight department but am short on turbine time. They fly Twin Otters to shuttle people around Northern Calif in addition to their jet fleet for extended range biz travel. To make my resume more compelling I had thought of taking an offer from Island Air (part 121) to fly their Dash-8s in Hawaii. Long story short ... I passed on the class but think that previous 121 experience can only be a plus. Wrong?

 

[2000flyer]

I would think that time spent at a Part 121 operation would be beneficial to getting hired at a corporate flight department if you were honestly looking at Corp as a career and not just a paycheck while furloughed. Like you said, it also helps to network with as many people in the corp. food chain as possible.

I'm interested in HP's flight department but am short on turbine time. They fly Twin Otters to shuttle people around Northern Calif in addition to their jet fleet for extended range biz travel. To make my resume more compelling I had thought of taking an offer from Island Air (part 121) to fly their Dash-8s in Hawaii. Long story short ... I passed on the class but think that previous 121 experience can only be a plus. Wrong?

Having an airline background going into corporate can be a risky venture. While not the rule, many CP's consider someone with an airline background as liking to get on the plane, turn left and wait for the doors to close. Also, an airline pilot can get used to a hard schedule, which can be rare in corporate aviation. Sadly, too many in the past have used a corporate flight department to build multi/turbine time to advance their airline career potential.

Having an airline background certainly isn't the glass ceiling to a corporate job. However, IMHO, it will make it harder to get the interview at a corporation.

2000Flyer

 

[av8tortype]

Having an airline background certainly isn't the glass ceiling to a corporate job. However, IMHO, it will make it harder to get the interview at a corporation.

2000Flyer

Thanks 2000flyer. Your opinion is well taken.

 

[Stearmandriver]

Having an airline background going into corporate can be a risky venture. While not the rule, many CP's consider someone with an airline background as liking to get on the plane, turn left and wait for the doors to close. Also, an airline pilot can get used to a hard schedule, which can be rare in corporate aviation. Sadly, too many in the past have used a corporate flight department to build multi/turbine time to advance their airline career potential.

Having an airline background certainly isn't the glass ceiling to a corporate job. However, IMHO, it will make it harder to get the interview at a corporation.

2000Flyer

I took my current regional airline job just to build turbine time (like everyone else of course), and around a year ago decided I finally had enough time to maybe be competitive at a career-type dept. I've been sending unsolicited resumes to good departments in areas we'd like to live, and while I don't have a job yet, I've gotten some favorable responses from fortune 500/100 type places. Of course, I've also compiled an impressive stack of the "thanks for the resume, oh highly qualifed pilot, but we don't expect to be hiring - ever" letter...lol. But, there are three chief pilots that I'm in regular contact with now, who seem appreciative of my interest in their departments and encourage me to keep in touch, and even contact me with updates about their depts. Since I'm the cynical type, this would make me suspicious if they didn't work for departments that I understand to be good careers. And, people don't seem to leave them.

As I've said, I don't have a job yet, so I don't want to sound too positive about the process, but it seems to be going ok for me. I don't think my airline gig has really been a problem for anyone. On the other hand, and more importantly as others have mentioned, the airline environment HAS kept me isolated from forming contacts with folks in corporate aviation, and the right contact is worth more than just about any type of flight time, it seems.

Either way, "non-obnoxious persistence" seems to be a valuable trait for this game!

Joe

 

[falconpilot]

another problem that I have noticed, in last couple of years, is the insurance companies requirements. I know a couple of guys that I would love to help out, as far as getting them some right seat time jet time. But do to our insurance companies requirements for a SIC, I can't. How is anyone suppose to get any experiance? Well.... I think I will have to agree with the idea of trying to get a job with a commuter to build some time. I know that some companies don't like ex- airline guys, but on the other hand some do. Good luck....

 

[StaySeated]

Airline background....

I have been flying 121 for seven years but I have been trying to get a corporate job in my home town for the last five years. I landed an interview and everything went really well. After the chief pilot talked with the owner I was out of the running, the owner believed that once the airline industry recovered I would jump ship for my shot at "the majors", whatever the he11 that is anymore. This was not your standard large corporate flight department, but the point is that my airline background contributed to me not getting the gig. FWIW.

 

[AA717driver]

StaySeated--I had to really educate my interviewers on the pitfalls of the airline industry before I got this job. Most corporate types with any seniority still see the airlines the way they were 15 years ago. It just ain't that way.

I think the best way(without someone working on the inside) to transition is to take a lesser corporate job(even maybe a 135 job) to prove you're serious. It's tough. The furloughed airline pilots from years past really left a bad tasted in the mouths of corporations that hired them when they ran back after recall.

Falconpilot made a good point about the insurance issue. The guy I beat out lost because I had bags of flight time. Maybe if you can make some corporate contacts as you are building time at a commuter, just let them know your game plan and they may be receptive.

Good luck.TC

 

[Stearmandriver]

Well, it's interesting to hear that some places really DON'T hire airline guys... and a shame, as well. I can understand their concerns about losing a pilot, but I think it must stem mostly from employers not understanding what the airlines have become, like AA717 said. I'm really surprised flying for a regional would disqualify you though; I thought it was universally understood that these were time-building jobs! Heck, when I was hired at my company five years ago, one of the interview questions was, "where do you see yourself in seven years?" and the correct answer was, "at my career job." If you said, "still here as a captain for coex" you weren't hired because they knew you were lying! The regionals certainly suck, but where else can you go from being a 1500 hour flight instructor with barely 200 multi, to the right seat of an all-glass jet? (These days anyway; minimums were considerably higher when I did it.)

I did anticipate that depts. would be leery of hiring furloughed folks though, so I threw this paragraph in at the bottom of my cover letter:

"Lastly, I’d like to note that I’m not furloughed, nor will I be. I have a very stable position at my company. I understand that, given the current economic climate, flight departments such as yours are probably inundated with résumés from furloughed airline pilots, and I’d like to point out that I am voluntarily seeking employment at your company. If hired, I won’t be leaving as soon as my airline recalls me, the way a furloughed pilot might.


If I can provide you with any further information, please don’t hesitate to contact me. I look forward to talking with you soon. Thank you very much for your time and consideration."

I waffled for awhile about whether to include this paragraph, because I thought it sounded kind of, I don't know... pushy. Arrogant. Too much like I was trying to one-up the next guy. But in the end, I decided it was kind of necessary, and given the conversations I've had with chief pilots, I think it was a good thing. It might be worth considering adding a disclaimer like this to your cover letter.

Joe