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Advice on making career decisions
- Thread starter celi95
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Thanks guys for all your opinions. Without out a doubt im going to continue my education, but the question is where. I decided i have the following options.
A) Stay here at ERAU with the AS major and keep taking loans out for school and flight and then graduate with about $120,000 in debt. But then i could possibly get a internship or get involved with ERAU's bridge program and get a job after graduating or CFI. or
B)Stay here at ERAU but drop the AS major and take up something like Aviation Business and fly off campus and still get a job after graduating and then pay off the loans. But have something else to fall back on
C) Do one of the above but go through AF ROTC and not have the loans, but then have a commitment. I know its hard to say, but if i committed for the 4 yrs, would i really have the time to CFI?
D) Go back home and work and attend the community college and do the distance learning program, and get all my rating at home as well as the BS from ERAU.
E)Go back and attend the state college and get a degree in something else as well as getting all my ratings and doing some CFI.
what do do you all think?
thanks again
russ
A) Stay here at ERAU with the AS major and keep taking loans out for school and flight and then graduate with about $120,000 in debt. But then i could possibly get a internship or get involved with ERAU's bridge program and get a job after graduating or CFI. or
B)Stay here at ERAU but drop the AS major and take up something like Aviation Business and fly off campus and still get a job after graduating and then pay off the loans. But have something else to fall back on
C) Do one of the above but go through AF ROTC and not have the loans, but then have a commitment. I know its hard to say, but if i committed for the 4 yrs, would i really have the time to CFI?
D) Go back home and work and attend the community college and do the distance learning program, and get all my rating at home as well as the BS from ERAU.
E)Go back and attend the state college and get a degree in something else as well as getting all my ratings and doing some CFI.
what do do you all think?
thanks again
russ
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Stay at Riddle - if you can afford it
Yip wrote on 1/24/03 that he has a B.S. in Math and Physics from Michigan State and a Masters from Central Michigan U. Pretty decent educational quals. Not to mention his Navy flying experience (military) which trumps many of us civilian pukes in the eyes of H.R. I haven't quite understood his point of view about not getting the degree, except that he has stated repeatedly that he is just giving an alternate point of view. I'd still get the degree, in something. I love an Aeronautical Science degree but I'm not wed to it. As Falcon Capt. noted, 9000 hours of jet with no medical and no degree/fallback plan and a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee (or maybe a groundschool teaching job or sim instructor job if you thought to get your AGI-IGI).
I think a lot has to do with your pocketbook, Russ. I'd go for Riddle if you can afford it. If not, there are excellent and cost-effective alternatives at state or other colleges. If you go AF, your military flight time will give you an advantage in getting interviews. Airlines love military pilots, but military is still no guarantee.
My good friend and ERAU examinee Falcon Capt. and I had a discussion about corporate flying when he was in town a few months ago. He asked why I didn't consider it instead of beating my head against the wall pursuing regional flying. I've thought about it since then, and perhaps I should have. Great jobs paying great money, international flying experience, and great equipment. Back in my day, though, such jobs were hard to get and took years. I tried, briefly. In any event, as Falcon Capt. notes, corporate could have more potential than airline flying.
Hope these thoughts help. Once more, good luck with whatever you decide.
Yip wrote on 1/24/03 that he has a B.S. in Math and Physics from Michigan State and a Masters from Central Michigan U. Pretty decent educational quals. Not to mention his Navy flying experience (military) which trumps many of us civilian pukes in the eyes of H.R. I haven't quite understood his point of view about not getting the degree, except that he has stated repeatedly that he is just giving an alternate point of view. I'd still get the degree, in something. I love an Aeronautical Science degree but I'm not wed to it. As Falcon Capt. noted, 9000 hours of jet with no medical and no degree/fallback plan and a quarter will buy you a cup of coffee (or maybe a groundschool teaching job or sim instructor job if you thought to get your AGI-IGI).
I think a lot has to do with your pocketbook, Russ. I'd go for Riddle if you can afford it. If not, there are excellent and cost-effective alternatives at state or other colleges. If you go AF, your military flight time will give you an advantage in getting interviews. Airlines love military pilots, but military is still no guarantee.
My good friend and ERAU examinee Falcon Capt. and I had a discussion about corporate flying when he was in town a few months ago. He asked why I didn't consider it instead of beating my head against the wall pursuing regional flying. I've thought about it since then, and perhaps I should have. Great jobs paying great money, international flying experience, and great equipment. Back in my day, though, such jobs were hard to get and took years. I tried, briefly. In any event, as Falcon Capt. notes, corporate could have more potential than airline flying.
Hope these thoughts help. Once more, good luck with whatever you decide.
Last edited:
Pilot YIP
If the guy has a better education than me....
Is ex-military, which should give him the first nod....
And is older than me....
Why is it I'm where I am and he's flying rubber dogcrap out of YIP?
Something doesn't add up....
If I learned one thing from the guy it's that I now agree that a degree isn't for everyone. I recently talked to buddy of mine who is in his mid 20's and wants to fly. He has no ambition above flight instructing or, at the most, flying for a regional. For him, a degree is a waste of time. He's been working at a 9.50 an hour job and making 15 an hour as a CFI is a big step up. I think, for him, a degree is unnecessary.
Ceil95...I vote for option E first and option D second. Of course, it's your life and you must do what you think is best.
If the guy has a better education than me....
Is ex-military, which should give him the first nod....
And is older than me....
Why is it I'm where I am and he's flying rubber dogcrap out of YIP?
Something doesn't add up....
If I learned one thing from the guy it's that I now agree that a degree isn't for everyone. I recently talked to buddy of mine who is in his mid 20's and wants to fly. He has no ambition above flight instructing or, at the most, flying for a regional. For him, a degree is a waste of time. He's been working at a 9.50 an hour job and making 15 an hour as a CFI is a big step up. I think, for him, a degree is unnecessary.
Ceil95...I vote for option E first and option D second. Of course, it's your life and you must do what you think is best.
Salty Dog
2 bells, no stinger
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2001
- Posts
- 152
I must respectfully disagree w/the sky is falling assessment of the future of Airline flying. There are still guys out there pushing the Big Iron around the sky for over $200k a year.
There are those who said the world will forever change when all those highly trained combat veterans coming back from WWII will flood the industry and no higher paying jobs will be around for many decades. Less than ten years later airlines were hiring off the street to train from PPL up.
Then in 1966 the same was said of returning Vietnam vets. It took longer, but hiring did start up again in the mid 70s.
Again when deregulation led to the alter ego start ups and Frank Lorenzos of the world, it was supposedly the end of the big airlines.
Now it's post 9/11 and the rise of LCCs like Southwest and Jet Blue along with fractionals.
Forgive my humble opinion, but I'm not buying the doom and gloom. It's a perfectly normal reaction, but being forgetful of history and extrapolating short term social eruptions into infinity doth not the future tell. People will forever need to go from one big city to another, and large airplanes will be the most economical way to get them there. Over the course of aviation history, pilot wages directly correlate to airline profitability. To assume the Majors will go the way of the dinosaur is to assume what? That everyone will be willing to shell out the cost of fractional ownership? That airline management will NEVER get it right again and turn a profit, not even for a little while? That Southwest and Jet Blue pilots will never ask for a pay raise even if they are the last big airlines standing? The American economy will never grow again? Come on.
Yes, pilot wages and hiring opportunities are taking a hit. Future flying may be more diversified between regionals, fractionals, air taxis, private ownership, whatever. It is not going to change the fundamentals that are even in these times putting thousands of chock full widebodies into the air with relatively well-compensated pilots at the helm.
Pilotyip, you may feel free to point to the price of gas in 1978 and say "the era of the automobile is over", but I'll continue to point to the Interstate system and say "there's no way it could be."
There are those who said the world will forever change when all those highly trained combat veterans coming back from WWII will flood the industry and no higher paying jobs will be around for many decades. Less than ten years later airlines were hiring off the street to train from PPL up.
Then in 1966 the same was said of returning Vietnam vets. It took longer, but hiring did start up again in the mid 70s.
Again when deregulation led to the alter ego start ups and Frank Lorenzos of the world, it was supposedly the end of the big airlines.
Now it's post 9/11 and the rise of LCCs like Southwest and Jet Blue along with fractionals.
Forgive my humble opinion, but I'm not buying the doom and gloom. It's a perfectly normal reaction, but being forgetful of history and extrapolating short term social eruptions into infinity doth not the future tell. People will forever need to go from one big city to another, and large airplanes will be the most economical way to get them there. Over the course of aviation history, pilot wages directly correlate to airline profitability. To assume the Majors will go the way of the dinosaur is to assume what? That everyone will be willing to shell out the cost of fractional ownership? That airline management will NEVER get it right again and turn a profit, not even for a little while? That Southwest and Jet Blue pilots will never ask for a pay raise even if they are the last big airlines standing? The American economy will never grow again? Come on.
Yes, pilot wages and hiring opportunities are taking a hit. Future flying may be more diversified between regionals, fractionals, air taxis, private ownership, whatever. It is not going to change the fundamentals that are even in these times putting thousands of chock full widebodies into the air with relatively well-compensated pilots at the helm.
Pilotyip, you may feel free to point to the price of gas in 1978 and say "the era of the automobile is over", but I'll continue to point to the Interstate system and say "there's no way it could be."
Flyguy5432H
1 fast mustang
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2003
- Posts
- 41
i'm also new to the board, but i do have recent experience as i recently graduated from the daytona campus last year.
alot changed from the point that i started back in 1998 to the present. when i started pilot jobs were good, and you were almost guaranteed a position as a CFI/I at riddle if you wanted to do so. with the current state of the industry thats no longer true.
in my last two years i saw alot of friends and younger students changing from the aeronautical science degree, airline pilot area of concentration, to aeronautical science, aviation studies. in the aviation studies area of concentration your required to pick up a minor as a graduating requirement. there are many good minor at the school including ATC, meteorology, applied psychology, and a bunch of others. these will give you a background in something else, but still with the core of aeronautical science.
as for the flight training there, i did not do my private certificate there. i did it part 61 out of a small grass airstrip in pennsylvania. i saw alot of pilots come out of riddle that never flew outside of the riddle bubble and had very little experience in other areas of the country. the accelerated training is good, but it's just that, accellerated. take any chance you get to fly other places.
i had alot of fun at the school in my 4 years there, and you do get the education and training that would be expected from a school of that caliber. i'd definitely recommend the aviation studies area of concentration and a minor in a field that you enjoy. good luck!
alot changed from the point that i started back in 1998 to the present. when i started pilot jobs were good, and you were almost guaranteed a position as a CFI/I at riddle if you wanted to do so. with the current state of the industry thats no longer true.
in my last two years i saw alot of friends and younger students changing from the aeronautical science degree, airline pilot area of concentration, to aeronautical science, aviation studies. in the aviation studies area of concentration your required to pick up a minor as a graduating requirement. there are many good minor at the school including ATC, meteorology, applied psychology, and a bunch of others. these will give you a background in something else, but still with the core of aeronautical science.
as for the flight training there, i did not do my private certificate there. i did it part 61 out of a small grass airstrip in pennsylvania. i saw alot of pilots come out of riddle that never flew outside of the riddle bubble and had very little experience in other areas of the country. the accelerated training is good, but it's just that, accellerated. take any chance you get to fly other places.
i had alot of fun at the school in my 4 years there, and you do get the education and training that would be expected from a school of that caliber. i'd definitely recommend the aviation studies area of concentration and a minor in a field that you enjoy. good luck!
Country Wild
Retiring Soon
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2002
- Posts
- 78
Aviation is a wicked and winding road, one day you are the king of the hill, next day your company is bankrupt. Listen Kid, I was young when I started and things seemed to have fallen into place for me some way some how through all the layoffs furlough cycles..etc...etc..., but I never chased aviation. I always did what made me happy. In the end it all worked out. Get a degree, but fly because you enjoy, don't try to plan your whole life right away, cause before you know it you will retiring soon...
KingAirKiddo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
- Posts
- 465
My $.02...
I can understand your dilemna...been there, done that says the cliche.
I too am from a middle class family with limited resources. I graduated from Riddle in 2000 with a degree in Aeronautical Science, though most of my flying was completed off campus (they didn't change that rule until after I graduated). I am now burdened with debt that will take a long time to pay off.
I can only offer this. If you are committed to pursuing your goals in aviation and stay focused it will pay off, no matter which path you choose. My first two jobs in aviation (first flight instructing, then flying corporate Barons and King Airs) were obtained through contacts that I made outside the Riddle bubble. The networking that I accomplished in DAB enabled me to land an interview at ACA, where I am presently employed as a CRJ FO (and ecstatic to be here).
Looking back, I don't think I'd change anything of significance. My advice is to simply work hard, keep a positive attitude (yes, it is hard at times), network your brains out, and stick with it. If you take all these steps, it will pay off for you no matter which option you decide to pursue. I'll echo Falcon Capt's advice...make sure you get the degree whether it's a Riddle one or not. Education is going to be the key, whether it's at a major, a Fortune 500 corporate flight department, or some job outside of aviation.
Best of luck to you. Keep your chin up...it'll all work out for you in the end.
KAK
I can understand your dilemna...been there, done that says the cliche.
I too am from a middle class family with limited resources. I graduated from Riddle in 2000 with a degree in Aeronautical Science, though most of my flying was completed off campus (they didn't change that rule until after I graduated). I am now burdened with debt that will take a long time to pay off.
I can only offer this. If you are committed to pursuing your goals in aviation and stay focused it will pay off, no matter which path you choose. My first two jobs in aviation (first flight instructing, then flying corporate Barons and King Airs) were obtained through contacts that I made outside the Riddle bubble. The networking that I accomplished in DAB enabled me to land an interview at ACA, where I am presently employed as a CRJ FO (and ecstatic to be here).
Looking back, I don't think I'd change anything of significance. My advice is to simply work hard, keep a positive attitude (yes, it is hard at times), network your brains out, and stick with it. If you take all these steps, it will pay off for you no matter which option you decide to pursue. I'll echo Falcon Capt's advice...make sure you get the degree whether it's a Riddle one or not. Education is going to be the key, whether it's at a major, a Fortune 500 corporate flight department, or some job outside of aviation.
Best of luck to you. Keep your chin up...it'll all work out for you in the end.
KAK
embdrvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Posts
- 430
Pilots at any airline have degrees from all over. I know some of the folks on our hiring committee and I have never heard them mention where someone got their degree influencing the decision on whether or not to hire that person. Most airlines are looking for someone that is pleasant enough to spend 4 days flying with and is reasonably safe and competent.
There are many excellent community college flight programs out there that would cost a fraction of ERAU. You could go through one of those and then work on your BS degree while flight instructing or flying traffic watch, cargo, or whatever.
A couple of the best pilots I've flown with graduated from a state university with an aviation degree. There are some awesome pilots out there with a HS education. It's a shame that their lack of an education is preventing them from moving to a major because they would be an asset to any flight department.
There are many excellent community college flight programs out there that would cost a fraction of ERAU. You could go through one of those and then work on your BS degree while flight instructing or flying traffic watch, cargo, or whatever.
A couple of the best pilots I've flown with graduated from a state university with an aviation degree. There are some awesome pilots out there with a HS education. It's a shame that their lack of an education is preventing them from moving to a major because they would be an asset to any flight department.
pilotshan
Superstar
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2002
- Posts
- 77
my 2 cents
According to these figures, someone owes me about $30,000!!
Aside from that, there are plenty of other aviation colleges out there that provide a quality aviation education. Hopefully,by the time you're out of school, the industry will be on the upswing, but I'd hate to have $120,000 in student loans to pay off now that I'm out of school and flight instructing. Luckily, I graduated with only about $40,000 in student loans. That included all of my ratings (through CFI) and a bachelor's degree. I had a little bit of scholarship money that helped but it only totaled about $8,000. Riddle is a good school, but is it worth it to be that much in debt afterwards, even worse, is it worth it to be comitted to the military when you really don't want to be there?
Based on what you're saying, you may want to consider another school with an aviation program. There are plenty out there where you can get an associate's or bachelor's degree without ending up with an enormous debt load. Some important things to look for are bridge programs with regionals and internship opportunities. You want to make as many connections as you can as early as you can. It's also worth considering getting a non-aviation degree or having a double major so you have something to fall back on.
Hopefully this was helpful to you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
Falcon Capt said:
According to these figures, someone owes me about $30,000!!
Aside from that, there are plenty of other aviation colleges out there that provide a quality aviation education. Hopefully,by the time you're out of school, the industry will be on the upswing, but I'd hate to have $120,000 in student loans to pay off now that I'm out of school and flight instructing. Luckily, I graduated with only about $40,000 in student loans. That included all of my ratings (through CFI) and a bachelor's degree. I had a little bit of scholarship money that helped but it only totaled about $8,000. Riddle is a good school, but is it worth it to be that much in debt afterwards, even worse, is it worth it to be comitted to the military when you really don't want to be there?
Based on what you're saying, you may want to consider another school with an aviation program. There are plenty out there where you can get an associate's or bachelor's degree without ending up with an enormous debt load. Some important things to look for are bridge programs with regionals and internship opportunities. You want to make as many connections as you can as early as you can. It's also worth considering getting a non-aviation degree or having a double major so you have something to fall back on.
Hopefully this was helpful to you. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
Maxwell Smart
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Posts
- 51
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