Advice Needed

[RAV152]

I’d like some advice from anyone here who has previous airline HR experience or who has had a similar situation. Any serious advice is greatly appreciated. I’ll try to keep it short and the details to the minimum.

I was recently in class at a major regional airline. I passed all writtens and oral exams and was one event into sim training when my wife was diagnosed with what we thought at the time a life threatening condition. It was not an immediate life and death situation but considering her cousin passed away three months after being diagnosed with the same illness I really began to worry. I told my sim instructor and every higher up I could think of about my situation hoping to get a few days off to attend to my wife’s further testing. I was told that would not be possible. As a result I continued with training and received an unsat eval on the ensuing sim. I was stressed enough with my wife’s health and realized that it was not going to get any better. I could either be a good pilot and forget about all my wife was going through or go against her wishes and leave to be with her. I decided to resign. It was tough but I realized my priorities have changed after three years of marriage. A few days later I sent the company a letter explaining what was going on and hoping I could return to training at a later date. After a couple of weeks I received a response telling me I was “unrehireable.”

My wife has since gotten a second and third opinion on her condition. She has to go back for monthly checkups and exams but for now it is not as serious as we once thought. I’m thankful for that and realize that if I was in the same boat all over again I wouldn’t have done it any different. I enjoy this career but it is not the source of my happiness just the means by which I earn a living, as meager as it might be. I have an interview with another airline soon and would like to know how to approach all this. I know it looks bad to leave training for any reason but I’d like to think people understand life does once in a while get in the way. I have nothing to hide but wonder if this could be a mark on my record that could negatively influence a possible employer. I have no incidents, accidents, or violations on my record with an ATP and 2100/300 mostly from instruction. Any advice anyone could provide is appreciated. Please feel free to PM me if anyone wants more details. Thanks.

RAV

 

[boeingdriver213]

I had a similar event happen with my wife. I was most of the way thru training when she became very ill. I called the chief pilot , director of training, etc. They said "GO! Family is more important". A classy group of people. By the time I could go back, the company was on a downhill slide, but they would have let me come back whenever I was ready. Jobs come and go, especially now, but family is forever. You made the right call, and I'm sure you will be better off in the long run. Good luck to you and your wife....

 

[hangar7guy]

I had an experience strangely like that of boeingdriver213, and I often look back and think "What if?" I might be a captain with the company I turned down,making decent bucks. Then again, I might have been furloughed.

Anyway, I think you did the right thing. As for the outfit that says you're "unrehireable" (what a word!), forget about them. It doesn't sound like you missed much.

Best wishes.

 

[English]

Eagle is notorious for doing this to their new hires. Was this Eagle?

 

[Lear70]

Sounds like PCL... I know you've heard it before, but you definitely did the right thing. Family comes first.

A few counter-suggestions - I know I'm going to get flamed, but I feel very strongly that companies that act unethically towards their employees get everything they deserve; note, some of these require you to be a bit devious, but I always say fight fire with fire, so...

First question, which airline are you going to now apply to? How you approach it is based, in no small part, on what kind of company you're applying to - if they have a culture similar to the people who wouldn't let you return to training, you're probably not going to get hired if you disclose the previous problem. That brings me to...

2nd Question: did you get paid during training? I'm talking about being on salary as a pilot - not per diem, not hotel, those don't count as you won't get a W-2 for them. If you did NOT receive compensation, then you technically never worked for that company. As a result, you are not LEGALLY required to disclose that employer on a 10-year background form (PRIA).

If you weren't applying for an ATP AND you weren't applying for the type on the same checkride you pinked, then the FAA more than likely won't have a record of it in OKC with your permanent pilot data, which means that it won't show up on any background check with the FAA airman or aeromedical database checks. Send off for a FULL copy of your FAA Airman Record from OKC A.S.A.P. (it'll cost $10 or $15, can't remember, it's been a while since I pulled mine).

What does all this mean? IF you fit into this category, you can safely omit this employer from your application and background information, state that you left the aviation world to attend to your family, then re-entered at the earliest possible time when the crisis had been dealt with.

Yes, there are ethical implications to this, but when employers no longer value an employee who will take care of their family, I say F*CK 'EM! I don't believe this kind of event or the omission on an application would show a character flaw worthy of keeping someone out of the airline environment, quite the opposite actually.

BIG CAVEAT: if an employer ever got wind of it, you're screwed and you can believe they'd fire you on the spot, but that's between you and your ability to keep your mouth shut about it for the rest of your life. (That's one nice thing about these boards: you can hide your identity and safely ask questions from behind the cover of anonymity if you so choose).

If you don't fit into this category, about the only thing you can do is keep plugging at the applications and get back into the charter world, getting into EFIS aircraft as quickly as possible to show that you CAN qualify in that type of aircraft...

Good luck!

 

[English]

2nd Question: did you get paid during training? I'm talking about being on salary as a pilot - not per diem, not hotel, those don't count as you won't get a W-2 for them. If you did NOT receive compensation, then you technically never worked for that company. As a result, you are not LEGALLY required to disclose that employer on a 10-year background form (PRIA).


What does all this mean? IF you fit into this category, you can safely omit this employer from your application and background information, state that you left the aviation world to attend to your family, then re-entered at the earliest possible time when the crisis had been dealt with.

Yes, there are ethical implications to this, but when employers no longer value an employee who will take care of their family, I say F*CK 'EM! I don't believe this kind of event or the omission on an application would show a character flaw worthy of keeping someone out of the airline environment, quite the opposite actually.

BIG CAVEAT: if an employer ever got wind of it, you're screwed and you can believe they'd fire you on the spot, but that's between you and your ability to keep your mouth shut about it for the rest of your life. (That's one nice thing about these boards: you can hide your identity and safely ask questions from behind the cover of anonymity if you so choose).


Good luck!

Please don't follow this advice. While I'm sure it was given with the best intentions, it is completely wrong. There was a pilot hired at Eagle earlier this year who was in the exact same situation as you are now. He left training at Pinnacle, but, since he was told he was not an employee yet, he left the information off his application at Eagle. After he finished training at Eagle, he was fired for not disclosing that he went through training at Pinnacle. See, what he didn't know is that airlines are required to keep records of anyone they train. It doesn't matter if the pilot was an employee in thier eyes or not. So, no matter where you attend training, there are records out there covered under PRIA. I'd hate to see you go through tragedy a second time.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Please don't follow this advice. it is completely wrong.

Understatement of the day.

DTB

 

[blzr]

Dude... What is a MAJOR REGIONAL AIRLINE?? Sounds like you interviewed with U.S. Air. That's the only Major Regional I can think of.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Dude... What is a MAJOR REGIONAL AIRLINE?? Sounds like you interviewed with U.S. Air. That's the only Major Regional I can think of.

What about SWA?

 

[AnimalTale]

IHey buddy,

Your Family comes first. No ands ifs or buts. If your MAJOR REGIONAl AIRLINE (eagle,pcl,) did not understand this then, forget about it.

This does not ruin your chances with any other airline.

JUST EXPLAIN THE SITUATION. "Your wife was very ill and you needed to be by her bed side. Your company would not allow you this time." Keep it simple and dont rant off.


The minute you tell the interviewers this, they will not probe anymore. They do not want you to start getting emotional in the interview.

Do not worry about it. Enjoy your wife's company and relax until the next MAJOR REGIONAL hire's you.

Good Luck

 

[WhiteCloud]

JUST EXPLAIN THE SITUATION. "Your wife was very ill and you needed to be by her bed side. Your company would not allow you this time." Keep it simple and dont rant off.

Interviewers at good companies know this kind of thing happens to pilots that are human. They also know which airlines pull this kind of stuff on their people too. They may have even worked there and experienced it first hand. If I were interviewing you I'd probably ask something general like...."You were only at airline X for a few weeks. What happened?" If the response is like the about suggestion and you are matter of fact about it I don't think you'll have any problem.

 

[Lear70]

Please don't follow this advice. While I'm sure it was given with the best intentions, it is completely wrong. There was a pilot hired at Eagle earlier this year who was in the exact same situation as you are now. He left training at Pinnacle, but, since he was told he was not an employee yet, he left the information off his application at Eagle. After he finished training at Eagle, he was fired for not disclosing that he went through training at Pinnacle. See, what he didn't know is that airlines are required to keep records of anyone they train. It doesn't matter if the pilot was an employee in thier eyes or not. So, no matter where you attend training, there are records out there covered under PRIA. I'd hate to see you go through tragedy a second time.

OK, granted I was sleep deprived after several illegals (not to mention yet another contract violation and several breakfast beers to calm the irritation) so in retrospect it probably wasn't the best advice - I should know better than to post after CDO's or frosty adult beverages when p*ssed off.

The above is a "grey area" in PRIA and it's currently under litigation by several pilots in the same situation - if a company tells you that you aren't "hired" unless you finish training, they are legally bound by that claim, and therefore can't keep records of an employee who was never hired. Should be interesting if they're successful, it would mean guys and gals in your situation would be able to legally withhold the information and there would be no PRIA records...

I still maintain that there is currently NO way any employer would ever know to look for them unless a) you told someone about your predicament and it got back to your employer or b) someone else who knew you told your employer. Airlines do not send out PRIA requests to every airline in the industry "just in case" you worked somewhere else...

That said, now that I'm in a more sober state, I wouldn't suggest trying that unless they are successful in their litigation and you can legally have all records anywhere removed, or unless you run out of all other ways to get back into aviation. Someone else said that "employers understand"... don't count on it.

 

[RAV152]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Lear, you brought up a good point about this being an anonymous board so I've decided to respond to English's question to what airline it was. And he was right it was Eagle. I truly wish all this had not happened since I would have been living in base in less than a year but I knew the rep Eagle had with its pilots and employees before I accepted their offer.

I've decided to be straight with all the facts in my upcoming interview. Most folks there seem to be pretty satisfied with mgt relations and hopefully that goes all the way to the recruiting dept. Thanks again fellas. Wish me Luck.

RAV

 

[English]

I'm truly sorry I was right about it being Eagle.

Look, the best thing you have going for you is your attitude. Just share your story just the way you did with us - open, honest, factual, and with no (obvious) distain towards Eagle. You successfully made it through the training you attended. You were right to put your family first. There's no way a decent human being would not hire you based on your circumstance. Anyone that wouldn't - well, that's just not the kind of company you'd want to work for, anyway.

Good luck to you.

 

[cvoav8r]

You do want to work for Eagle anyways. At least at MESA they will upgrade you. Eagle is for those who don't know better...you heard it hear last, move on.
And no I have never worked for MESA. I think they are slightly better than a cheaply run illegal 135 operator.