Adding the .2 for each military sortie for an ATP

[Foties]

So here is one for some military guys that also have extensive civilian experience.

I know that various airlines have different military conversions that allow us to add some time to each sortie, like the .2 per sortie to include block out and in times.

What advice would you give a guy that is being advised he should add that .2 per sortie conversion to his time to get that 1500 for the ATP.?

I know that the 1500 (ATP) is almost meaningless in the airline industry, but this is a unique situation where that 1500 is critical for an good career opportunity.

By no means do I want to be shady or dishonest but when I first started flying (which was civilian) everyone I knew logged their time from the HOBBS meter, which was the time the engine(s) where running(Pretty much block out to block in).

So is it right that Joe Cessna legally get his ATP solely logging HOBBS time and Foties military pilot fly his 1500 hours (averaging 2 hours per sortie, which would equate to roughly 1650 hours if you considered block out and in time)?

I greatly appreciate any 2 cents on this one. Late. 40's

 

[minitour]

If you're entitled to it, what's the big deal? I'd say do it.

 

[qmaster3]

Hell I add .2 to my 172 sorties.

 

[Flechas]

Mini even adds .1 per post here, what's the big deal, go for it!

 

[minitour]

Mini even adds .1 per post here, what's the big deal, go for it!

...and .4 for each new thread

Seriously, if you're entitled to it, I'd say do it..

-mini

 

[AdlerDriver]

It is understood throughout aviation that military time is logged differently than civilian. If you used a consistent conversion and don't get excessive - you are well within your right to convert. I think .2 per sortie is very conservative and wouldn't get you in trouble with anyone with a clue. I've even seen airlines that allow you to convert by multiplying by .2 (adding 20%).

I used .2/sortie to be conservative. On my military sorties, we started 30 minutes prior to takeoff and probably took ~10-15 minutes after landing to shut down. If I had a hobbs meter on my 1500+ sorties, I probably would have logged another 750-800 hours.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

On my military sorties, we started 30 minutes prior to takeoff and probably took ~10-15 minutes after landing to shut down. If I had a hobbs meter on my 1500+ sorties, I probably would have logged another 750-800 hours.

Thirty minutes prior to takeoff?!?,,,what was it a shuttle launch? LOL just kiddin ya

 

[AdlerDriver]

Thirty minutes prior to takeoff?!?,,,what was it a shuttle launch? LOL just kiddin ya

Yup,
Most Eagle units allow 13 minutes to start and complete pre-taxi checks. You actually stay pretty busy for the entire time. At the F-15 training unit, we let the students have 15 minutes. Figure a 5-7 minute taxi depending on the base. The 2-ship/4-ship also has to get "armed" which can take 5-10 minutes depending on how many troops are doing it and what the aircraft has for weapons. Doesn't take too long to eat up 30 minutes.

 

[Snoopy58]

Engines running in chocks wouldn't, I don't think, count towards the FAA definition of block time, although everything after the aircraft first starts taxiing (including time sitting chocked in the arm/dearm area) would. I think the FAA definition includes something about first movement with the intention of going flying, or words to that effect. Hobbs time probably overstates such time slightly, but most GA doesn't spend nearly so much time sitting still with the engine running before starting to taxi.

I'd be pretty careful about going to the FAA with an application stating 1500 hours when the AF record shows a lower number -- you're rolling the dice on a Fed accepting your conversion factor, and while it seems reasonable to all of us here, your friendly neighborhood Fed might not see it the same way, and then "you're in a heap 'O trouble, boy!" If it's really important that you get the ATP asap & the 1500 isn't going to happen, I'd make a call to the local FSDO first & get their answer to the question. That way, if there's any doubt when you show up with the application in hand, you have the out that so-n-so said it was okay.

best wishes,

Snoopy

 

[Pistlpetet]

An airline or employer willing to add some bonus time to a military aviator's flight time is a COMPANY POLICY. Just as it is also a COMPANY POLICY if they do not want to allow you to count any PIC time as a military aviator unless you are actually the Aircraft Commander (Not taking Part 61 into consideration).

The FAA works off of the FARs, and unless you can find it in the FARs where it talks of a military conversion factor, it obviously does not apply to FAA Pilot Certification, or Logging of flight time for certification.

The safest way for military pilots to keep all their flight time straight (own logbook), is to log it as is...the way your service counts flight time. Then if you show up for a job, you let the COMPANY decide if they want to give you any conversion factor based off of your actual time. The time that corresponds to your Military paperwork.

If you take it upon yourself to deem that you deserve extra time (Cause I am a big bad military pilot) eventually your flight time is going to get all screwed up, and an anal airline is going to see that you are trying to inflate your times.

One can rationalize about how Joe Hobbs time logs his time, but you are a military pilot, and need to take the good with the bad about that situation. You can't have your cake and eat it to always. You are already well ahead of Joe Hobbs time.

Do it the right way to keep things simple.