ACA's Dornier 328s in FLYI 8-K form

[General Lee]

328Jet Aircraft

The Company had previously disclosed that it had the right to assign 30 Fairchild Dornier 328 regional jet (328Jet) aircraft formerly used in the Company's Delta Connection operations to Delta Air Lines, Inc. ("Delta") and to require Delta to assume the aircraft leases as a result of the Company's Delta Connection agreement being terminated without cause, but that the Company would be liable for future obligations under the leases in the event that Delta at any time did not fulfill those obligations. The Company is currently in the process of delivering these aircraft to Delta, but as part of its restructuring effort, it has also secured commitments from lenders in the leveraged leases controlling these aircraft to release the Company from future obligations to them under the 328Jet leases upon assignment of those aircraft to Delta. With these agreements, the Company has completed an essential element of its restructuring by eliminating a contingent liability to lenders on these aircraft.

The Company remains responsible for the lease payments for the 30 328Jets to be assigned to Delta until the assignment to Delta is completed. Delta is reimbursing these payments on a weekly basis prior to the assignment. The Company made a partial payment consisting of interest only on the lease payments that were due in January 2005 and has been forwarding payments received from Delta to the applicable lease parties as received, but has agreed to pay the balance of the January lease payment, in the approximate amount of $7.3 million, by February 28, 2005. It anticipates that it will be fully reimbursed by Delta at the time of the aircraft assignment. The Company obtained rent deferrals similar to those reached on its CRJ fleet for the remaining two leased 328Jets that are not being assigned to Delta, and owns one other 328Jet aircraft that the Company is offering for sale.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DrewBlows]

What is the latest rumor as to why Delta hasn't taken deliveries of the FRJ's yet?

 

[jobear]

they have, they already own them, just hemming and hawing over what go's with what.

 

[Indypilot]

What is the latest rumor as to why Delta hasn't taken deliveries of the FRJ's yet?

Delta is playing a waiting game and hoping that we file bankrupcy. Then we can reject the leases and the planes go back to the bank. That way delta can wash their hands of the planes. It didn't work, we're not going to file anytime soon, so delta must now take delivery of them. It was game a chicken to see who would file first, but now neither of us are going to file in the next few months, so its going to go down as it was supposed to.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

IndyPilot, you just summed up the last six months perfectly! Delta's just waiting to see if they are, in fact, going to get stuck with them. Now it certainly seems like they will be.

 

[General Lee]

So, who will get them now via Delta?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[greenpickle]

Skyway

Skyway. Delta has even publicly said they are in negotiations with SYX. No other possibilities if you ask me.

GP

 

[Indy319FA]

As has already been posted, DL has been holding back hoping we would file Ch 11 and take them off the hook. This is not going to happen for the foreseeable future so DL will be assigned the aircraft over the next couple of weeks. Supposedly DL and Skyway reps are reviewing the logbooks right now and once the books of all 30 aircraft have been reviewed they will be assigned to DL per our agreement. This should happen over the next 7 days. The lessors have also agreed to take us off the leases for the Dojets, so once they are assigned to DL we are free and clear, even if DL declares BK down the road.

 

[jobear]

And from what our Mechs have said your mechs and the paper work done on the DO-jets was in a word "PATHETIC". So much for a congenial hand over not to mention the hostage parts that FLYi have and want 2 1/2 times the actual value for. Guess they gotta pay for thoose $59 airfares somehow.

Jobear
Inflamer-at-large.....

 

[Indy319FA]

And from what our Mechs have said your mechs and the paper work done on the DO-jets was in a word "PATHETIC". So much for a congenial hand over not to mention the hostage parts that FLYi have and want 2 1/2 times the actual value for. Guess they gotta pay for thoose $59 airfares somehow.

Last time I checked there wasn't anybody forcing Skyway to to take these birds. You want 'em........you got 'em. Business is business. If we can put the screws to somebody and get more for the parts that's good news. Skyway would do the same to Fly I if they could. This is a business, not a charity. If you don't like the price then go somewhere else. Its a free country. The only party that has no choice is DL because they signed an agreement to take the airplanes. I'm sure they can find a home for these aircraft somewhere else if Skyway doesn't want them or the high priced parts.

 

[ilinipilot]

Last time I checked there wasn't anybody forcing Skyway to to take these birds. You want 'em........you got 'em. Business is business. If we can put the screws to somebody and get more for the parts that's good news.

Great attitude lets just all screw each other. I will refrain from insulting your airline like you have mine and others.

Another point to consider, if your maint is as bas as is rumored, I wonder what the FAA would think about that. But then again I am sure you have millions in the bank to pay a fine for shoddy maint.

D

 

[Indy319FA]

Great attitude lets just all screw each other. I will refrain from insulting your airline like you have mine and others.

Not sure how I insulted you. But if you think Skyway or any other company wouldn't do the same thing to get maximum $$$$ for an asset then you live in lala land.

Another point to consider, if your maint is as bas as is rumored, I wonder what the FAA would think about that. But then again I am sure you have millions in the bank to pay a fine for shoddy maint.

First you whine about your company being insulted, then you call our maintenance shoddy. The aircraft were maintained in accordance with the FARs and the FAA had no problem with it. Like I said, if Skyway is so unhappy then why are they buying the airplanes? Are you insulting your own company by insinuating that your management so stupid they would buy shoddy airplanes and pay too much for the parts to maintain them? Sounds like a load of bovine fecal matter to me........

 

[jobear]

First you whine about your company being insulted, then you call our maintenance shoddy. The aircraft were maintained in accordance with the FARs and the FAA had no problem with it. Like I said, if Skyway is so unhappy then why are they buying the airplanes? Are you insulting your own company by insinuating that your management so stupid they would buy shoddy airplanes and pay too much for the parts to maintain them? Sounds like a load of bovine fecal matter to me........

Because an FA has the inside scoop on maintenance riiiiiight.
Skyway Airlines has recieved I believe 4-5 FAA Diamond awards for maintenance. Smoke on that and think before you speak of that of which you do not know.

Jobear
Out of the loop and just a little out of my mind

 

[Wacko]

I am just glad the deal is finally to a point where it looks like it is going to work out.

I am sure that our mechanics will do the best they can to make them reliable, since they have been able to a great job with our 328's. We have just been hearing that they are a paperwork nightmare. I just hope that they can be inspected in a timely manner.

As far as why they are that way.... well I am sure that ACA just simply stopped caring about something they knew wasn't thier problem anymore. Kinda like that last month rent at an apartment when you aren't getting the deposit back anyway.

 

[Indy319FA]

Because an FA has the inside scoop on maintenance riiiiiight.

Oooooh. Make you feel better to insult me because I'm an FA big guy? Well go right ahead if it makes you feel better about yourself. Just because you're a pilot doesn't mean you're gonna have the inside scoop either......

Skyway Airlines has recieved I believe 4-5 FAA Diamond awards for maintenance. Smoke on that and think before you speak of that of which you do not know.

First, I was not the one who opened this can of worms by slamming somebody else's maintenance. You did. Also I have said nothing about Skyway's maintenance. You started this by making a bunch of reckless accusations about our maintenance department. Oh and since you want to discuss Diamond Awards Independence/ACA has won 8 Straight Diamond Awards for maintenance. The latest being in August 2004 while we were still flying the Dojets. So maybe you should take your own advice and think before you open your big mouth.

 

[jobear]

Big mouth yes, honest yes. Were the planes your company parked train wrecks from everyone I have spoken to, yes. It seems paperwork was the least of the things being kept up on when Flyi went independant. I'm am not hear to argue or debate you but I will state the facts if you take offense I'm sorry maybe you need to relax a little but the fact of the matter is when ACA parked thoose Do-jets they were a paperwork mess.

I wish Flyi the best of luck, but to you I kindly say Good Day!

 

[ShadowFlight]

Indy319FA,

With all due respect, if you knew the contract between ACA and Delta was terminating soon, would you go to great lengths to keep the 328's in top condition? More than likely not. I'm not denigrating ACA's maintenance group - it's understandable that only basic maintenance was completed on the planes during the final months of the contract.

Yes, you are right - this is a business with no charity involved. But, at the same time, Delta and ACA were guilty of playing games that could have been avoided. In the end, ACA "won" the battle on transferring the leases to Delta. Undoubtedly, Delta will soon make a decision on whether to keep the 328's or find a buyer to assume the leases.

Skyway is the best company to operate the 328's for Delta given our experience with the planes. Please wish us well - we want to make the best of this opportunity.

I wish FlyI the best in the future.

Peace

SF

 

[Indy319FA]

Skyway is the best company to operate the 328's for Delta given our experience with the planes. Please wish us well - we want to make the best of this opportunity.

Shadow,

I have no problem with Skyway. I do have a problem with those that make an unsubstantiated accusation that our maintenance is substandard or shoddy in a public forum.

ACA/Indy maintained the Dojets in accordance with the FARs and kept them in an airworthy condition. Because the Dojets were going away the only maintenance we paid for was probably the minimum to keep them in operation and airworthy. Skyway or any other airline would do the same. You don't stay in business for very long paying for things you don't have to. Plus they have been sitting in MYR for 4 months which does not help. Any time maintenance inherits an aircraft from another airline they always complain about the condition. Once again this happens everywhere, not just at SYX. Mechanics aren't happy unless they are griping about something. As I said earlier, if the aircraft were in a shoddy and unairworthy condition DL nor Skyway would take them from us. One of the clauses in the contract says we cannot put the aircraft to DL if they do not airworthy and operable.

I wish Skyway the best of luck with the DL contract. The Dojet was a blast and the Delta folks were great to work with. Hopefully you will get CVG and BOS back. BOS was great in the summer and CVG was fun too.

Peace

 

[Always deferred]

Hey JO Bear,

If you guys do end up getting them, I apologize in advance for the crappy condition. They were flown 12-13 legs a day.

On the bright side, hopefully you guys will find the birds still have some good "reading material" which is stuffed into all the little velcroed hiding places...for your viewing pleasure..

ad
doh 4/02
dof 1/05

 

[dalegribble]

Did ACA ever settle the FAA fines levied over operating the CRJ's with overdue AD's? That was supposedly well into the hundred millions.

 

[dojetdriver]

Did ACA ever settle the FAA fines levied over operating the CRJ's with overdue AD's? That was supposedly well into the hundred millions.

Did the two "major" airlines that use the same mx tracking software ever pay the "hundred's of millions" the fine supposedly went into for them as well.

I'm not flaming you dude, but like was stated above, that problem didn't occur becasue the Mx at ACA/I-air is p1ss poor, it was a problem with software that didn't catch things like it was supposed to.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

Play Nice Boys and Girls!

There really isn't a need for Skyway and FlyI people to be bashing each other. Both sides are shaping up to be winners here. Independance will be free and clear of some airplanes that obviously aren't in their future plans and Skyway should be expanding to fly them. The only people that won't be getting what they want is Delta who's getting stuck with them but even that could be turned into something positive if the planes carry their passengers and bring in some revenue.

So this has the chance to be a three sided win-win-win scenario. I guess that's just the optimist in me.

 

[ShadowFlight]

There really isn't a need for Skyway and FlyI people to be bashing each other. Both sides are shaping up to be winners here. Independance will be free and clear of some airplanes that obviously aren't in their future plans and Skyway should be expanding to fly them. The only people that won't be getting what they want is Delta who's getting stuck with them but even that could be turned into something positive if the planes carry their passengers and bring in some revenue.

So this has the chance to be a three sided win-win-win scenario. I guess that's just the optimist in me.

I suspect there is frustration involved with some of these posts. I can't speak for the FlyI group but the Skyway group has been waiting a long time to have the situation resolved. Granted the overstaffing issue on the jet is providing great lines with a lot of days off but we know that can't last indefinitely. We just want Delta/DCI to make a decision, dang it!

All we can do is hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Peace

SF

 

[House_X]

Did the two "major" airlines that use the same mx tracking software ever pay the "hundred's of millions" the fine supposedly went into for them as well.

I'm not flaming you dude, but like was stated above, that problem didn't occur becasue the Mx at ACA/I-air is p1ss poor, it was a problem with software that didn't catch things like it was supposed to.

driver,

Our mx tries their best with the resources given to them. I have friends in mx and I know for a fact our software was not "off the self" that the majors use. You know how we work...so I won't go into details, but I'm sure you heard what we used. The fact that we did not use the Cadillac of software programs and the fines PUBLICLY levied against us by the FAA proves that we have a long way to go in terms of being a serious contender as an LLC.

to the rest,
It's a shame that both Indy and Skyway are bashing each other. We're both in trouble and I'm sure the majors are loving us fighting over where the Dorniers go. What bothers me is that we (Indy) will have up to 500 pilots on the street w/ a loss of $86mil in 4th Q, 30 Dorniers wasting away and Skyway needs the planes for growth. This business is getting worse by the month...

 

[dalegribble]

Actually, from what I heard, the aircraft left the factory with the uncomplied with AD's, not bashing Indy (ACA)---I fly on you all alot and never felt the equipment was unsafe. Sorry if you took offense. I was curious as to the end results. It is soooooo easy in the grand scheme for things to fall through the cracks. Now I can just see someone posting that nothing should slip and better companies do not have these problems but they are full of it. It happens everywhere. Sometimes you get caught.

 

[jobear]

Well said HouseX. I guess I shouldn't be allowed to touch the computer while on pain killers from neck surgery.

If I offended anyone with my silly diatribes I am truly sorry, and the last thing we as pilots need now days is to bash each other; we as someone else said should aim it squarely (sic) at the managers whoose golden parachutes leave them unaffected by their bad decisions, sub-par management techniques, and whipsawing.

Now I guess I'll catch it from the bosses at work since they know my NOME DE PLUME as it were.

Have a great weekend and wonderful year and think of your famalies often.

Joe

 

[ShadowFlight]

If any FlyI/ACA pilots or mechanics took offense to my post, please accept my apologies. It wasn't and still isn't my intent to bash anyone from a another airline.

Hopefully, everyone concerned understood this was/is a debate with no harm intended.

Peace

SF

 

[jobear]

If any FlyI/ACA pilots or mechanics took offense to my post, please accept my apologies. It wasn't and still isn't my intent to bash anyone from a another airline.

Hopefully, everyone concerned understood this was/is a debate with no harm intended.

Peace

SF

Go to bed bed you turd wrangler

Have a good un "k"

Jobear

 

[ShadowFlight]

Go to bed bed you turd wrangler

Have a good un "k"

Jobear

Pot/kettle/black...LOL

What were YOU doing up at that hour??? I have an excuse...like being out for a few 7&7's...LOL

Get better soon.

Peace

SF