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ACA to UAL - Make the call

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tarp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Posts
539
Sub-note: - United has asked ACA, Skywest and Air Wisconsin to make concessions on the "fee for departure" schedule. As an added incentive, United also announced talks with Mesa and Chautauqua asking them to bid on current carrier's lines. The new carriers have noted that the United work would be perfect for their non-union subsidiaries (Freedom and Republic).

From Washington Post, January 16th edition

Atlantic Coast Seeks Answers From United

By Keith L. Alexander
CHICAGO, Jan. 15 -- Atlantic Coast Airlines Holdings Inc., the Dulles-based regional carrier that relies on United Airlines for most of its business, asked a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge today to force United to declare by Feb. 28 whether it plans to continue using Atlantic Coast.

United could reject or maintain its current affiliation contract with Atlantic Coast, but under bankruptcy law United does not have to make a decision for months into its 18-month planned reorganization. Atlantic Coast, however, asked Judge Eugene R. Wedoff to force United to make a decision sooner. Wedoff said he will rule on the petition at a Feb. 6 hearing if the airlines do not reach an agreement by then.

United's intentions for Atlantic Coast may show how big a role regional jet operations will play in Chicago-based United's reorganization strategy.

Atlantic Coast is United's largest regional partner and operates 33 regional jets under the United Express banner. Atlantic Coast, which has 46 additional jets on order that would become part of the regional operation, currently operates 600 daily flights for the world's second-largest airline.

Atlantic Coast attorney Robert M. Fishman said the airline's executives were in limbo and were fearful of being stuck with more planes than they need if United reduces its Express operation. Fishman said he hoped United would inform Atlantic Coast before Feb. 6.

"Atlantic Coast is caught between a rock and hard place," Fishman said. "Either they keep assuming United is going to keep doing business with them or start making business decisions in a world where United is no longer part of their operations. But they have to know something soon."

Fishman said that if United decides it no longer wants Atlantic Coast operating its regional flights, the small airline might not have not enough passengers to fill the additional seats.

United's other two regional operations, Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. and SkyWest Airlines Inc., have not joined Atlantic Coast's petition. But Fishman said the other two were "considering" filing a similar petition.

Frederic F. "Jake" Brace, United's chief financial officer, said the airline was in discussions with Atlantic Coast and trying to "work out an appropriate relationship."

Late last month, United acknowledged that it was in talks with its three regional partners over cutting its payments by $70 million to $80 million a year to help reduce costs while in bankruptcy.

Atlantic Coast spokesman Rick DeLisi said yesterday that those discussions were continuing.

Also yesterday, Judge Wedoff said he would rule at the Feb. 6 hearing on whether State Street & Trust Co., trustee for the airline's employee stock-ownership plan, could sell its remaining shares. On Monday, United's parent company, UAL Corp., said it would allow State Street -- which has expressed fears that the stock may become worthless -- to sell about 13 million of the plan's remaining 32.5 million shares. UAL executives had argued that if State Street was allowed to sell more, the change could result in an ownership shift that might affect up to $1.4 billion in future tax benefits.
 
Atlantic Coast is United's largest regional partner and operates 33 regional jets under the United Express banner. Atlantic Coast, which has 46 additional jets on order that would become part of the regional operation, currently operates 600 daily flights for the world's second-largest airline.
[/B][/QUOTE]

As always, take everything you read in the media with a grain of salt...

This reporter can't even get ACA's readily available "stats" correct.

ACA flies 33 regional jets for Delta as Delta Connection.

ACA flies 75 regional jets (CRJ-200's) and 29 Jetstream 41's for United.

Let's see...33 planes, over 600 daily flights...that's 18-19 flights per day per plane...no wonder those regionals make sooooo much money!!

:D
 
I think this is a good move by ACA, so they can plan for their own future. The article under-reports the ACA aircraft United Express utilizes quite a bit. I'm only in the pool, but believe that over 70 CRJ's and around 30 J41's are assigned to UAX. I don't see how any "new" partner could jump in with both feet and field a team of over 100 aircraft to replace ACA, let alone the fleet provided by SkyWest and AWAC.

I would think that the regional partners are making money for UAL even at the current pay rate and if they plan to expand, that should only get better. Why try to fix the part of your operation that ain't broke.

CGflyer
 
Any regional airline could easily take possesion of the additional 46 RJ's on order if they landed the UAL contract. Those ACA orders for RJ's are really anyones airplanes if they lose the contract. You or I could probably get a few if we low balled UAL and won the contract. Just an Idea!
 
I don't think its going to be easy for UAL to do this.

1. I think ACA owns its own gates at IAD.

2. I think it's hard to get the credit to by these jets. Alot of banks and lending agencies are being conservative about lending to air carriers. Even if they can get the lending they still have to take delivery and fill the planes with pilots.

3. Trying to replace ACA would be a logistics nightmare.

4. This doesn'y sound like a recovery plan for UAL and UAL employess. It sounds like a bandaid to make a quick buck. USAir is built with a bunch of duct tape right know. It won't take much to brake it. I hope UAL consentrates on fixing its problems at root. This strategy may only create more of a problem.

I think UAL is playing hardball. I doubt Skeen is going to fold. I doubt that ACA is going to sit back and watch some other BS carrier slowly take over its routes.
 
This is exactly what the wrong mentality is:

"...and watch some other BS carrier slowly take over its routes."

Those are UAL routes that UAL has hired ACA to do. ACA may try to fly those routes on their own in their own colors, but right now UAL tells them where to go and when to go.

Those RJ deliveries don't belong to UAL, they belong to ACA. If UAL tells ACA they are no longer needed, those deliveries are almost sure to be dropped and ACA may even park some currently flying RJ's. I would think it'd be no problem for Mesa to tell Bombardier to go ahead and make those airplanes, but we'll pay for them instead. Then to send a crew to Arizona to pick up some already painted UAL colored RJ's.

S.
 
cocknbull said:
1. I think ACA owns its own gates at IAD.

2. I think it's hard to get the credit to buy these jets. A lot of banks and lending agencies are being conservative about lending to air carriers. Even if they can get the lending they still have to take delivery and fill the planes with pilots.

3. I think UAL is playing hardball. I doubt Skeen is going to fold. I doubt that ACA is going to sit back and watch some other BS carrier slowly take over its routes. [/B]

1) And sadly they were designed for DoJets/J41 aircraft in the inner positions and CRJs on the ends. Actually I believe most airlines "lease" the gates from the MWAA, so in a sense you are right, I believe those gates are "owned" by ACA. Curious if they have come up with a game plan for how they are going to park airplanes when one day its an all CRJ fleet, the B Ramp <big grin>?

2)If you look at ACA's balance sheet you will discover they have a pretty good credit rating.

3) Absolutely they are playing hardball. Bankruptcy is to reorganize not to continue paying contracts from before bankruptcy. I don't think Kerry will fold, however he will cut his losses and guess where he will go to recover the money <humming Theme from Jeopardy> DING! the employee groups.

Humble
 
Humble pilot and beech nut very good points

I stand corrected. They are infact not ACA routes they are just operated by ACA. I also apologize for sounding so negative about Freedom possibly taking over some "UAL" routes. I just don't think that is going to solve any of the problems UAL has in the long run. In fact it may create many future problems. I know my opinion doesn't really matter. Either way I hope the two sides work their problems out and continue to have a good relationship. Also I didn't mean ACA had bad credit and couldn't secure leases or loans. I meant other less established regionals might have a problem secureing jets in ACA's place. Yes, I did notice that some of the IAD gates were kind of tight. Good Point Humble.
 
No need to apologize. I can't be negative enough about Freedom possibly flying for UAL. It's going to be fun trying to compete with those whores.

A worried UAX pilot.
 

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